What Is Low Church Anglicanism and What Do They Believe? (Anglican Church in North America – ACNA)

In my last video I went and visited an Anglican Church in Overland Park Kansas It's a part of the Anglican Church in North America Acna and there's a gentleman there named Pastor Patrick Wildman who was kind Enough to show me around he was awesome The church is beautiful I learned a ton Of stuff if you haven't seen that video You might want to go check it out but as He was showing me around I felt like This is a guy I could sit down with and Ask some basic but difficult questions Of and I don't think he would be Threatened by it and so I asked him at The end of our tour if he could extend a Little bit with me if we could sit down And if I could ask him about the Background of their expression of Christianity their theology a few more Details about some of the hot button Issues and also some personal questions That I have wrestled with over the ages About faith and that I know a lot of you Have wrestled with as well because I Hear from you and he was up for it and So the video you're about to watch is That follow-up sit down interview with Pastor Patrick Wildman of Christchurch Anglican in Overland Park Kansas this Gets to some really honest places and I Found it really meaningful and I hope You do as well all right here we go is There a specific name to this brand of

Anglicanism that is practiced here or is It all just anglicanism Well anglicanism is if you think of it As an umbrella It's a big it's a large umbrella there's A lot underneath it And so this church in particular Was founded by people who were Interested in really creating more of a Lower Church expression of anglicanism a More Protestant Evangelical expression Of anglicanism I would describe that as a characterized By people like John Stott okay you know So So But there is a much more higher Church Expression of anglicanism a more Anglo-catholic expression I have a lot Of colleagues who are in that camp and I love them you know but Just slightly different you know and More formal and and obviously some Theological differences and that kind of Thing but Yeah it's it's a big tent Is there Institutional distinctions or is that Big tent one institution and a lot of Different manifestations occur under it Well our our denomination the the Anglican Church in North America A c and a yeah okay so You know

We're we're all a part of the same Same thing but you know different Diocese so so within that that Church there are diocese a bishop Overseas a diocese and so Those different diocese tend to reflect Obviously the Theology of the bishop right and so they They tend to take on those Characteristics so if the bishop is a More High Church anglo-catholic Bishop Then typically the churches are too What would be the Super agreed upon you go to more or less Any Anglican Church Theological distinctively you just we All think this what would that be well There there are really Um you know all anglicans and and this This has been a consistent debate I mean For a long time like what unites Anglicans because the Anglican Church is All over the world and so everywhere you Know if you go to Uganda or Rwanda or Wherever you know the the church starts To take on Different characteristics Depending upon wherever it is you know So because culture is a thing yeah Absolutely so You know uh the Bible as the inspired Word of God you know Um the Creeds as a sufficient statement Of faith uh

Bishops you know all Anglican churches Are Governed by Bishops The dominical sacraments the sacraments Of Jesus Holy Communion and holy baptism Out those those would be things that Would be agreed upon By all All anglicans where do anglicans have Some degree of debate in terms of style And theology Anglicans have different you know views On a lot of different things You know there are more practical Debates about how strictly do you need To follow all the rubrics of the prayer Book and worship and that kind of thing You know but there's bigger picture Debates about things like You know women's ordination you know Women being ordained to the priesthood Like here at Christchurch we've had Women priests since Long before I came but probably in the Mid to late 70s I was talking with Trish Out here is she ordained she is she's Awesome yeah what's her role here she's The executive Pastor okay and so She serves some on Sundays and you know But she's I've been here 22 years and she's been Here Money She attended here before that but she's

Been on staff for 20 years So Uh she does a lot of different things But yeah she's We have uh we've had a we've had women Priests here yeah since at least the mid 70s but that's a pretty contentious Debate in our world and I I have a lot Of colleagues who Vehemently disagree with me about it but I don't you know those things are not Personal They're they're not uh we we agree to Live together and love one another Despite those kind of differences what Are the what are the theological Undergirdings of that discussion because I've certainly visited churches and Talked with folks who'd be like oh like Of course you've got to ordain women I'm like oh okay well Walk me through that theologically and Their answer is Well The New Testament I think it was kind of Just back then and So I you know and some of that stuff Like you just gotta kind of take it with A grain of salt and it's and it's really A pretty weak defense that that Ultimately kind of In my estimation sort of sells out a Whole lot of other things in an attempt To to

Justify that particular practice Then I've had other friends who would Come from traditions where Women's Ordination is a thing they've got a Little more nuanced perspective that Seems to maintain that other value you Just mentioned in terms of Like the authority of scripture What is what is the rationale here and And how does that work what does the Discussion look like I mean certainly And I'm going to try to answer the way Our Bishop Todd Hunter answers this Question So you know you had you can you have Scholars on both ends of the spectrum on This debate that go through you know the New Testament with a fine-tooth comb and And you know dig into every word Headship and all those kinds of things We're probably not going to add a lot to That conversation You know so and and they come to Different conclusions You know uh whether they're on the Complementary inside or the egalitarian Side you know I love the way Bishop Todd talks about It he talks about it as an issue Also an issue not just of Um Uh What's specifically the Bible says about These specific things

And I'm probably saying that wrong but It's really a kingdom issue so like when Paul talks about In the Kingdom There is no male or female Jew or Gentile slave or free we're all One and if the kingdom is not only Something in the future but is now So we're trying to live now What will someday be When those divisions Those hierarchies will cease I've visited churches where just out of Habit I use language like you just did The kingdom this Kingdom that well okay So these are Kingdom values because I See that I've spent a bunch of time in The Book of Matthew lately trying to Understand it and working on it and that Theme comes up a lot obviously it's a Payoff in the Old Testament theme of This eternal Throne promised to David's Descendants somebody's going to sit on Him it's there it's real yeah but I've Run into some folks who Really balk at that language So It seems like it's a centerpiece here Like you were talking about Kingdom out Here you're talking about Kingdom Sitting here what does that mean in Simple language for the outsider Kingdom is a is a sphere a place a Territory

Where the will of the king is done And so the kingdom Is anywhere That God's will Is done Where his Rule and Reign are made Manifest So his Everything the kingdom since God is Sovereign over creation Unlimited in his Power Uh no Everything is not the kingdom there is a There is you know the Bible speaks to This there's the kingdom of this world That is not part of God's kingdom now Someday it will be Someday he will reign forever and ever And the kingdom of this world will Become the kingdom of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ right So so but right now those kingdoms are Not one they are kind of at odds with One another so you are going for An expression of the kingdom here that Is representative of what it is and what It will be our Bishop talks about that Often like he he describes churches as Outposts of the Kingdom So What are the values there what is that What does that look like in terms of the Lived experience of a person who's Participating in Kingdom Life in this

Church Well it it It means that it's more this is more Than something that is just kind of In our heads It's more than just hey we kind of check Some Boxes of intellectual Tenets of faith But it's it's lived out it's It's in our everyday lives You know so it's embodied I don't know if that's making any sense I think it is Lots of people have Values stuff that they're into they go Through life maybe apart from God apart From church yeah but everybody in their Mind has Some sort of moral compass whether I Might totally agree with how that moral Compass is dialed or not right that's Another conversation yeah but but Everybody has guiding principles and Those guiding principles play themselves Out How is what happens here different than Any normal set of guiding principles Somebody might land on for how to Navigate life and relationships Well here we're I mean we are on Unapologetically You know we're trying to live by the Values of Jesus and and his kingdom

Absolutely so it's outside in this is Not a self-actualized set of values Right these are these are values handed Down to you Oh for sure yeah absolutely and you know Those values are very much I think in Contrast to the values of the kingdom of This World In what ways Well I mean honestly right now in our Culture That I experience it feels to me like The overarching value is just Be yourself You do you whatever that means sure and That's just that seems to be kind of the Highest value of of culture right now It's not whatever that means I mean There are a few things that culture Frowns upon that you're not allowed to Be a few yeah but You know we we are Unapologetic about The fact that we are Focused on Jesus and we want to embody And live out the vow his values the Values of his kingdom You know so we want to be a forgiving People But that in tones that people have Problems which is in conflict with the You do you absolutely okay yeah so so so Part of the values of the Kingdom In this context then is inclusive of the Assumption that people are flawed and Have sin

Absolutely That's not a scary word here no they People hear it every Sunday really Absolutely Both in the message and in the liturgy All have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God How is that Glory restored Through Jesus Christ Coming to faith in him And Following in his ways being transformed By the Holy Spirit So that We become more and more like him as Paul Writes in second Corinthians and we're Transformed from glory to glory Um And as we are transformed I think we're Able to experience more and more of that Life that he has for us we come Fully Alive I think I think you're on to something In that that is profoundly in contrast With The values of planet Earth right now A story that starts with the Assumption There's something wrong with you yeah Like that The only thing that you know that Doesn't preach that doesn't Preach Today No it doesn't but we do but it squares With my experience I know there's Something wrong with me totally

Absolutely it doesn't matter how many Disney Plus shows tell me there's Nothing wrong with me though they may be Very entertaining yeah I I still know And and from my journey of faith that Was a huge part of what I couldn't Square and why I was unable to make the Leap to a there's nothing wrong with me Faith I I just can't go there I can understand It and I can listen But look there are Redemptive things About me and there's stuff that through The influence of other people and and The influence of of God and his presence I hope in my life yeah that I've seen That are less screwed up and less weird Than they used to be even beautiful Things Redemptive things starting to Peek out every now and then in my life But I I know my mind I know I know The snap impulse I have when I'm Encountered with any situation And it it starts with me and what I want What I get and how this affects me And then some other thing has to Challenge that very intentionally To think about other values and other People and other things I know there's Something wrong with me is the point and As much as I find the message of the World appealing it doesn't square with

My honest reality of self no So and we're not you know we're not here We're not trying to make nice people Nicer What are you trying to do We're trying to lead people to Jesus Christ we're we're trying to bring glory To God by helping people to come to Faith in Jesus Christ and have their Lives transformed and we believe that That's What we were created for We were created to be in that kind of a Relationship with God that is made Possible through Jesus and his death and Resurrection we I mean We we really believe this stuff I but I noticed that your language Is not Like come to our church where everyone Is bad and we reflect on that Badness Your language is all forward-looking Proactive yeah life abundantly life in The Kingdom And so It I guess what I'm hearing is there's no Real reason for the proactive invite if There isn't a problem in the first place Right through the acknowledgment of the Problem in the first place It makes the thing that you're inviting People to that Christ is inviting people To

Much more compelling Because it's a I mean it's a new nature It's another thing it's an other set of Values right well and and you know one Of the things that I love about the fact That we Um Celebrate communion Eucharist every Sunday is it it keeps the gospel Central So no matter what we may be preaching on You know and we typically do exegetical Sermons they tend to be fairly gospel Oriented in in nature but Even if we were preaching on Um you know doing a series on family or Something like that You know you're still going to hear A clear message of the Gospel Every Sunday Give me the bullet point version of that What is the gospel Well they're they're you know like I Said we run the alpha course and I think That that really is a presentation of The Gospel but it's 10 weeks you know It's it's there there's a lot of facets To the gospel but the core of the Gospel You know the thing that Paul says the Thing is of utmost importance I I give To you you know That Christ died for our sins according To the scriptures On the third day He was raised to life

You know so the the core of the Gospel Is that We were created by God we were good but We've rebelled we've turned away from Him But through Jesus and his death and Resurrection We've been given a gift Here it is The gift of of forgiveness the gift of Eternal life The gift of being restored into Relationship with God we're given that Free gift that we receive by faith Is that gift Offered to everyone automatically given To everyone like that U2 album was when People bought iPods not automatically Given because it I mean the gift is Available but it has to be received You could you could say Patrick I have a Free gift for you and I could refuse to Receive it And unfortunately people do So how do they receive it in anglicanism In your tradition what does it look like For a person to be like that sounds Great I want in well certainly faith is Is critical there you we know you Receive it by faith Um And then of course we would definitely Say you know if you have faith in Christ We want you to be baptized

You know so we'd be baptized initiated Into the life of the church what about Somebody who wants to have faith wants To believe it thinks it makes rational Sense wants it to be true wishes it was True but at some Deep level of their essence Feels like it's too big a leap and and Though they want it they can't The Heart level feel it a hundred Percent at their Essence what do you do With them If somebody came to me and said ah Patrick I really want this to be true But I don't think it is Then I would say well let's let's keep Working at it okay let's keep working Until you get there So you can't just baptize that person no And call it No call it good no because it's Meaningless Without faith The the sacraments have to be received In faith Or else you know I can come forward Receive communion But if I don't actually have faith in Christ like I said like we really Believe this stuff like if I don't Really have faith in Christ Then it means nothing to me So the the benefits that would be Communicated

By coming and receiving the Blessed Bread and Wine They don't come to us unless we come in Faith You know just having water sprinkled on My head or are dunked in the water we do We do both kinds of baptisms here okay Immersion and sprinkling but Um You know it's just the removal of dirt From the skin I go with the same Peter you know if if There's no faith So what do you do with doubt in your Tradition like what if somebody on the Front end of it is like I believe most Of the time And the other times I want to or what if Somebody's been in it for a long time And maybe something happens or maybe Nothing happens yes and maybe it's the Fact that nothing happens that gets them To a place where they're like Yeah I think it's probably all true but I don't know like never saw a miracle or Anything and it's compelling and I'm Here but I just feel a little bit dead inside and Sometimes I doubt what do you do with That Um You know we we talk about doubt as if we Just assume everyone has doubts everyone Um

And we go through seasons of life where We have Our doubts are greater maybe then in Other seasons But we can still stay true To Jesus in our doubts Okay I think I'm understanding our Doubts don't don't mean that we have to Just abandon Our faith No I mean we can still stay true to Jesus and our doubts I mean it says in Matthew 28. You know the 11. so imagine this the 11 Gather With the Risen Jesus And it says they worshiped him But some doubt it And and he had been dead recently yeah And now he's eating with them so yeah if If they doubted well then I think we're Going to doubt too yeah and I do like Yeah most of what I'm asking is Is hypothetical because I think the honest person watching this Maybe they've watched some of the Conversations we've had like this in Catholic contexts Pentecostal contexts an orthodox context A more Evangelical context that they Hear it and maybe the high Church stuff They're like all right I understand the Steps you enter the church through

Baptism at the back and you live the Church and the Nave and up here you you Celebrate communion and buried in the Churchyard I get the Journey of Faith The church does the heavy lifting I don't mean that as a pejorative or a Critique of Catholicism no that's not True yes I do I don't think that Theologically so yes I yeah I I do find That theology to be unsatisfactory On that level because I do see in the Bible As a very personal element to the Relationship and I don't see the church As being that mediator role yeah I think I believe in the priesthood of all Believers and I think we have access to The Thrones that's why I'm not Catholic It's the biggest reason but I get how somebody could watch this Video and be like I get it with Catholicism you sign up your parents Make a decision for you in some cases You're baptized my Catholic friends have Told me salvation occurs at that point Other Catholic friends of nuance said a Little bit differently but the mechanics Are very clear excuse me if you find That satisfying sacraments God's grace That is administered to you through them By someone who's approved by the Hierarchy it's very historical I could see how someone from an Apostolic

Sign gift tradition which I'm also not a Part of or somebody watching a video With that crowd and say oh I get it so If something happens and you get your Miracle or you have that feeling or you Can suddenly speak a language that isn't A normal language but somehow it's from God yeah it could be do I find that Compelling myself I do not but it's it's Measurable there's a thing like ah yeah External expression I can see it that's The system I guess I know I'm in If If someone comes to a tradition like Mine Or like yours where there's quite a bit Of shaded area that I'm detecting Between the two I could see how they would say of all The different systems I've seen this is The trickiest one because it seems like Belief is a really key pivot point in This yeah and that's that's one it's Hard to measure And two It feels like my belief in everything Fluctuates over the course of my life is There some kind of cut off How do I know that I'm in like what Happens if something goes wrong and like I super did believe and I super am going To believe later but right now I just Feel kind of dead inside like how does That mechanism work and so that's why

I'm That's why I'm picking your brain it's Not to like put you on the spot and get You to like say something to pass some Kind of time Faith is not based upon our feelings and Any given moment What is it based upon why at the based Upon Jesus And and what he has done for us Not not The varied Ups and downs of Our Lives Um so Our our faith ultimately is in him And not you know it's not determined Just simply by how I feel in any Given day But we need to believe to be saved Yes but it's a belief that transcends Feelings Yes what does that look like It looks like Uh I I love my wife And I'm married to my wife for 31 years Do every day I just have these this Unbelievable feelings and no it Ebbs and Flows and you're married you know you Know exactly what I'm talking about some Days some days we're mad no idea what He's talking about honey This man sounds crazy to me on this Point continue yeah

So but but our commitment to one another It's it's a covenant relationship sure And In a similar way I think That's what our relationship with God is Lies the Covenant it's Um it's much deeper And more substantial than just our Feelings And a in a given moment Covenant and that's I recognize that Language from the New Testament I Recognize it from the institution yeah It's a New Covenant six in his blood Yeah right so it's not not it's not First and foremost about me and how I'm Feeling So it's not We do this in remembrance me this is the The New Covenant in your steadiness of Conviction right yeah how about that Yeah I mean Hmm Okay So I always I always use this expression The heavy lifting who is doing it here In the understanding of faith that you Have Within anglicanism I mean Christ the church the individual belief Theology what does the big lift that Solves the human problem here What is the big lift that solves the

Human problem here That's a big question but it's it's not The church Except that the church is the vehicle Through which Jesus is working it's his Church so ultimately everything comes Back to him I mean he's the one doing The heavy lifting And the cross is where the lift happens The cross is certainly pivotal moment In that lifting but it's not as if he he Stopped working okay He's still working He's still shaping us transforming us Through the power of the spirit so that His his presence his power in our lives Continues Certainly the cross is Central To What We Believe Because we believe that you know Actually something that he actually did Die and something actually took place There You know it's not just some metaphor You know uh something but it's something Actually concrete took place there so It's it's absolutely Central to who we Are and what we believe but it's not as If Um That's the whole story there's a Resurrection right So sure yeah yeah and the whole thing's Ridiculous if there isn't

Right yeah without a resurrection There's no the resurrection is what Tells us that the cross Has has meaning yeah if that's Like I'm with you even in my darkest Days of wobbling or even broken Faith Still it's a pretty logical equation If Christ is not raised from the dead The thing is a joke If that as ridiculous as that Proposition sounds as people who live in A physical world are used to certain Physical rules That's still the calling of the shot That was made Either that's going to happen and it's All true Or it's not going to happen and why Cling to any of it right and so I I don't feel a lot of resonance with Those Fringe Christian Expressions where They're like well you know Jesus was interesting and Early Christians believed in a way in Their heart they felt a metaphor for him Being alive with them in the same way we Remember the people who meant so much to Us and I that just is the least compelling Thing Ever it sounds like a bunch of Rubes Lied to themselves to make them feel Better about the sunk cost they already

Had in the Jesus thing and so at that Point like can we be a social action Club just call it what it is But I find tremendous resonance with other Christians even if they do a lot of Stuff different than me If they view that as the pivot point if There is a guy who said Or affirmed that people said about him That he has gotten the flesh the Christ The long promised Messiah the Son of God And if there was a guy who did all the Things that Jesus did And basically pushed all of his chips to The mill and was like you'll see Standing at the right hand of the father Alive in three days I'm telling you it's Gonna happen and then that actually Happened that's the most compelling Thing in the history of humankind Without it and I can't shake it without A doubt yeah and and We absolutely Affirm that believe that and we Preach it every Sunday Um Again unapologetically You say there's more though that it's Not the cross it's not just the Resurrection that Christ's function Goes beyond that that there's more in The life of the person who responds to It and I think that takes us all the way

Back to the values of the kingdom and The stuff we were talking about at the Beginning the The very proactive orientation of Everything in here the windows the Orientation of what you've done to Cultivate things outside the mix of the Old and the new the the logo the the Statement of purpose that you have right Under it all of that points to something That looks beyond That moment of belief And how does the cross and the Resurrection How does that manifest in the life of The person who responds to it what is it What does it look like to be that kind Of Christian They were preaching in Hebrews right now And so my text that I'm working on for This coming Sunday is Hebrews 12. But for the joy set before him he Endured the cross And so I think always we're encouraging People to Look to Jesus to keep their eyes fixed On him Um And To be inspired By Not only what he has done for us But where he's taking us You know so we're we're people who are

Kind of simultaneously looking back And giving thanks for what he has done For us But also looking forward To The fullness of Salvation that will Someday The hours You know so I think We want people they have to be rooted in Christ and his death and Resurrection At the same time we have to point people Forward To well yeah what does this mean for my Life And how do I live out This Faith in my life You know how am I how am I living into The death of Jesus I've not heard that phrase turned quite That way before I got to think about That for a minute Okay the way of the Cross okay You know How am I carrying my cross You know which is not like oh I have a bad back or it's just my cross To bear no no that's not what we're Talking about we're talking about how am I Giving up myself how am I giving up my Life for the sake of others To go and redeem problems that aren't

Your problem the same way Christ would Redeemed a problem it wasn't his problem So so the cross informs Not just it's not just for our own Forgiveness but it informs our whole way Of life Okay so I'm hearing you talk about two Things with the cross then one is that There is actually some kind of Atonement to use the Bible word it did a Thing right that addressed the problem We were talking about earlier But then beyond that it also not in Opposition too but also is setting the Trajectory I mean it's it's the example Of the king of the Kingdom that he went And did that as the king and that's a Pretty humble gesture to go and beep Yeah put down by your underlings and Your projects when you could stop them And you don't stop them for their own Benefit for their sake for the glory of Your father So So sometimes I talk with people and I Sense that it's atonement theology or Its moral example Radiology What I'm hearing is kind of Both one does the Salvation thing the Other informs the what does the Christian Life look like following the Example of Christ thing am I following You right yeah Okay yeah

Yeah okay Yeah and that speaks back into doubt a Little bit too because If that If that transaction of God's love and His Justice that's resolved at the cross Is something that we don't own and then Like we didn't do it I didn't die on the Cross right and I'm not qualified I mean I suppose I could I don't want to give You a try yeah I'm qualified to Physically die on a cross I'm not Qualified to accomplish what Jesus Accomplished on the cross so that's About God that's about something he did But then That happens beyond my power I believe I Wobble I believe I wobble I have Questions about this you go through dark Places but even as you go through that The story still stands the moral example The the trajectory example the lead by Example of Jesus is there whether you're In a place of just maximum mile high This is the clearest it's ever been Faith or this isn't going very well Right now Struggle Yeah that does kind of help It does kind of help it address or Ameliorate some of the pressures to Really make sure I keep my belief quotient that right at That high level yeah or lie to everybody

If it isn't at that high level yeah Belief Is not in belief in the Bible is not Intellectual ascent Or simply intellectual assent it's trust It's it's Confident trust so when Jesus says Believe in me he's not simply it doesn't Simply mean Oh can you do you intellectually check a Box that says yes I believe Jesus is the Son of God I believe he died on the Cross for my sins I believe he rose Again on the third day yeah I check all Those boxes intellectually I believe That it's it's more of a trust Confident Trust So it's like placing Our Lives In in his hands So The intellectual side of believing yeah Is going to have some Ebbs and flows We're going to have some challenges That uh and and you know some people are Just wired up differently and so some People that are really intellectually Wired up they have more intellectual Challenges in in believing sure Sometimes people just have doubts when They go through hard things you know It's like like the the Hebrew Christians That were receiving the letter You know they were being persecuted they Were having struggles some of them were

Some of them were abandoning ship they Were given up yeah or me when I do Something stupid or somebody does Something stupid to me yeah like I'll Wobble that's when it hurts yeah um or When I get so far down the Mind rabbit Hole that I get to An intellectual math problem That I just have to live in tension with For a while yeah usually that doesn't Eat my lunch but you know it sits there In the back yeah right so ah I don't I mean I can have days where I Have intellectual challenges And and and experience those doubts But I've never had a day Not not one Since I came to faith in Christ and you Know his grace kind of reached out and Grabbed me There's never been a day that I said Yeah I'm I'm out I'm done That that confident trust in him has not Wavered I've never said yeah you know I kind of You kind of took me in and I'm I'm Saying now I I I'm out There's never been a day that I thought That even in my darkest days of doubt What role does the the table what role

Does communion play In your tradition in Salvation and in continuity of faith Well depending you know Anglicanism is a big tent and so you're Going to get different answers to that But what is core And it is Every Sunday You know I am I am having to Grapple With The gospel the good news The the I'm having to Grapple with my own sin That Kind of Made it necessary for Jesus to go to the Cross so there's this there's this Moment Where not only am I having to do a lot Of introspection and confession which is Built in to our services but you know All leading up to communion but I'm being rooted Continually In that story This is who I am This is what I needed and Jesus did it For me So It keeps me rooted in that story but not Only that it's It's a sacrament So it's a a way that we receive Grace

And not just Grace like so that we go to Heaven when we die but Grace like The benefits of Jesus's death and Resurrection are communicated to me in That moment When I come and receive by faith The body and blood of Jesus You know it's like that it's like that's That story Is made new to me Every Sunday So this would be so he did this and he Did it for me Sustenance as opposed to birth and Continual rebirth It I'm not becoming a Christian again Every time no no that I go to the table It's yeah it's like a substance is a Good way to Describe it Okay So So if I'm not here for a chunk of time I'm still a Christian That that is every time you do this Right remember me Well what were they doing I mean that That was a Passover meal But they were they were having Bread and Wine how often did they have bread and Wine It was a staple yeah yeah every time you Do this remember me We forget

We're forgetful people And you know I am the Lord your God who Brought you out of the land of Egypt why Did he keep saying that well because They for they forgot right not that they Literally forgot but you know we Prone to wander Lord I feel it prone to Leave the God I love yes you know so I Can I sing that lionhearted yeah yeah so So Communion is all it's sustaining it's Always bringing me back bringing keeping Me rooted in What is the absolute essential Of our story Who Jesus is And what he has done For us but in that moment it's what he Has done for me Paul you know writes He loved me And gave himself for me When I come to the table It's he gave himself for me And that's powerful That makes Mountains of sense Look obviously I went to school for this Like yeah I've read the books you've Read I've read the Bible you've read I've done the job you do not as long or As well as you've done it but I think About this A lot you think about this a lot

It's been very valuable To not just pester you with questions so I can make an internet video But like You're probably reading me right No I just decided I was going to take This time sitting with you and actually Kind of run through it for myself again Like okay why do I think this and how Does that work and what about when it's Like this and just to hear somebody else Who I've never met Who's been through their own Journey With all of this put their words to it And articulate it and it's been really Helpful and and Clarifying and I'm appreciative of all Of it what if somebody else has been Sitting in on this conversation with us And they've been fascinated by Church Religion theology philosophy all the Stuff that people talk about on the Internet that we talk about here and They're like okay That makes sense that is actionable What do they what should they do Well if they're in Kansas City they Should come see me I think is that an Invite yes seriously yes so you won't be Weirded out if somebody shows up and They're like I'm from the internet I Want to talk more about the thing yeah Okay absolutely what if they're not in Kansas City uh then I would encourage

Them to try to find an alpha course See if there's an alpha course anywhere A church that runs Alpha because That's who that's who we want to attend Our Alpha course people By definition they're seeking right if They come to Alpha So Um that's An amazing way to Be able to kind of like I said process And ask your questions but what I would Say to anybody who's having that thought That's that's the Holy Spirit that's not That's not random it's not just your Head talking to you I would say that's That's God trying to get your attention And so take some action on that You know Find a church find Somebody that you can that you can talk To If you want you can you can call me or Email me I don't care Uh I love to talk to people about and help Them find their way to Christ Awesome This has been a delight Thank you Thank you that was a very meaningful Interview with me and I really Appreciated the Way Pastor Patrick

Could have just given me clinical Answers about the nuts and bolts of his Tradition and his local church but you Could see it a couple times in there That he paused and he looked at me And he reckoned me and he determined I think this guy's actually asking I think he sincerely wants to know what I think about this deeper question of Faith and what it looks like to live That out I want my understanding of that Is and I could tell that then he made a Decision after a pause to say I'm going to actually answer him and and Actually answer you And I thought that was really cool that Stood out to me from this conversation The the style the approach the tone that He took it was smart it was pastoral it It was an important afternoon for me in In my own process of faith and I'm Really grateful to Patrick and to Christ Church obviously for letting me show up Letting me bring a camera trusting me at Such a risk such a brave move to say we Might get taken advantage of here this Is some unknown quantity from the Internet that we're taking this Beautiful precious thing and putting it In front of I hope he treats us fairly And well but hey we got to do things we We have to give this away we have to Communicate it we're going to take the Risk I mean that's the calculation

They're running and so I respect them For that I respect them for the way they Handled their business and I respect Them for their answers I really Resonated with a lot of what's going on At this church and I want to I think that through with you over a Longer period of time but this was a lot To take in it's a big conversation a Long interview someone let you think About it I'm going to think about it and Then we'll get together again probably In the next video that I publish on this Channel and we'll game out a little bit What this particular slice of historical Christianity this little branch on the Historical Christian family tree is all About and and why I think it does Resonate with me so much So obviously thank you to them thank you To you for understanding the exercise Here and continually being so grateful And I've posted some videos lately where I'm asking I think really reasonable Questions about given traditions and uh Everybody just giving the benefit of the Doubt and talking like adults who get Along can have a laugh about some things And aren't so worried about everybody's Fragile feelings we can just be candid With each other and still like each Other you're really really good at that And obviously I always talk with other Content creators and whatnot about what

Their comment section is like what the People who listen or watch their thing Or like and you're the best it's not Even close you're the best everybody Knows it that there is something very Special about the way you treat each Other and very special about the fact That people so different as all of you Are and as you are from me can hang out In the same room and think about Something together and find benefit in It I just I respect you and I really Appreciate what you contribute to all of This just by Merit of who you are and Being here whether you ever actually put Fingers to keys and weigh in in the Comment section or not I really Appreciate you one last point of Invitation that I want to offer I do a daily podcast some of you know This already it's called the 10 minute Bible hour and on that Daily Audio Only Podcast I am into I guess what we could Call my second season I just started I Did a massive season one 800 daily 10-ish minute episodes on the Book of Matthew that's completed you can go back And start that from the beginning move Through it at your own pace I'm so proud Of it I'd be really honored if you would Check it out if you haven't already you Can get that anywhere you get podcasts There'll be a link in the description Below but I've just started my second

Season and this one is different it's a Much shorter thing it's only going to be 60 some episodes long but I'm going Through the whole Bible one book per day Until I'm done and I'm I am reading the Whole thing I'm reading every book of The Bible two three four times in Rapid Fire fashion because I have to get it Done every day and I just think it's Been a blast and so humbling I thought I Knew this material so so much better Than I actually know the material so Uh wow yeah I had a lot to learn I still Have a lot to learn and I hope that Really comes through in The Daily Show I've gotten really kind feedback from Those of you who are listening so I'd be Grateful if you'd check it out if you Haven't already you can just scroll back Into the most recent series to basically January 1st January 2nd of 2023 and That's where you pick up with the series I'm talking about the Through the Bible One book per day thing that I've been Doing if you are listening I'd always be Grateful if you have a chance to write a Review or invite a friend or something I'd really like to have more people Involved in that conversation too Thanks again to Christ Church thanks Again to you thanks again for Considering being a part of the podcast Thing as well look forward to doing this Again uh with some other churches in the

Very near future all right I'm Matt Thanks for hanging out with me on this YouTube channel and let's do this again Soon

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