Holy Spirit QR

[Music] Foreign Project podcast I'm John and this is Tim And today we're gonna do a holy spirit Question and response yes yeah this is The first time we invited uh those of You who listened to our three-part Discussion on the Holy Spirit and then We ask you to send in questions and man Great questions yeah really awesome Thank you yeah so uh we are going to Play some of these questions and we're Going to answer them as best as possible Although we're not calling it a q a That's right that's right it's q and r q R Yeah question and I do not John and I Do not presume to have all of the Answers that's silly yeah but we are Happy to respond right well and this is Tim responding and I'll help you ask the Questions hopefully yeah fair enough Okay Um so don't expect answers but do expect Responses Okay uh so this first Um question I think is good to start With because it'll help us just rethink The Hebrew Paradigm of what we're Talking about when we talk about Spirit But think even further yeah and this Comes from Michelle Houston and she Wrote I'm learning Hebrew and I notice that There's Michelle you're learning Hebrew

That's awesome yeah hope that's going Good for you Um sorry she noticed in her learnings That there's another Hebrew word nefesh And it usually gets translated as Soul Or heart but sometimes spirit and breath Yeah yep and so what's the difference Between ruach which we talked in in Depth about yeah meaning Spirit yeah and Nefesh which also sometimes is yeah Translated Spirit yes well one just as a Quick preface but this happens both in Hebrew and in Greek Um these terms Spirit soul mind heart Body they're called anthropological Vocabulary And in the New Testament and Old Testament Um we need to we need to remember that The biblical authors didn't sit down and Write out an official Glossary yeah of technical Anthropological vocabulary so different Authors use different words in different Ways Um and so instead of thinking about each Word representing some individual Component of the human Body body or entity Um we should think of like the Venn Diagrams of overlapping circles and so Sometimes the way one the way Peter Might use the word spirit will overlap With what Paul means by Spirit but also

With another circle of what Paul might Mean by heart in a different place Um so we're but all these words are Talking about different aspects or ways Of thinking about The Human Experience As opposed to like a A table of elements right a periodic Table Yeah Human Experience yeah of like The separable parts of the human so Foreign Examples of that in Hebrew they're two Different two different words that kind Of overlap and meaning yeah so ruak as We explore it means the invisible Animating Life Energy yeah that humans Receive As a gift from God and is also the same Energy that animates off creation so Breath breath breath God's breath Um Divine breath that I receive as a Gift so nephesh is is different it uh The translation is gonna stop there oh Yeah but it also can mean can mean Um your own mental volition essentially That's right so the invisible this idea Of an invisible entity that produces Visible effects so that's what God's Ruach does animating all of creation but Then I have a ruach you could say Because I have Invisible or non-material thoughts and Ideas and purposes yeah that produce a Very visible effect in the world yeah And so that's what the biblical authors

Mean by saying you have no deceit in Your spirit right or Um that kind of you get angry or Provoked in your spirit yeah yeah yeah This is this is all really hard because I'm trying to deconstruct the paradigms I have of spirit and yeah um and then Come back and go okay what what were the Hebrew thinkers doing with these words And when they use the word Spirit They're doing so much But as it relates to man and if I have Any sort of spirit it can mean the Breath of Life yeah that's right just The the fact that I'm alive yeah that You're alive and breathing that I have God's spirit yes because it's this Animating energy that gives everything Life Including me but then it can also refer To something else That's more personal to me that's my Ruach that my ability to make decisions Think about things Um thoughts volition yeah and and in Hebrew that's both ruach yeah as it Pertains to me yeah Um but what they aren't necessarily Saying right there is that I have some Part of me some ephemeral disembodied Correct State yeah yeah yeah yeah spiritual State that you can like maybe sum it up During a yeah uh uh Seance or something

Um yeah yeah what the biblical authors Don't mean when they talk about the the Spirit of a human Is uh a disembodied You That can exist forever independent of Your body In the afterlife or something like that Um that's yeah that's not a a Biblical Idea at this core we can talk about that A little bit Um typically however people think of Course that's in the Bible that's what The word Soul means right Um and that's and that's what the Hebrew Word nephesh is sometimes translated Yeah Michelle is the Hebrew word nephesh It entered into the English language Nephesh got translated in tyndale's Bible the Geneva Bible and King James With the word Soul okay Um Um and if we think Soul as yeah that Disembodied the real you that it lives Independently of your body that is not What the Hebrew word nephesh means Um so nephesh essentially literally There's a handful of uses where uh its Most literal meaning is throat So she all like the grave there's this Metaphor Isaiah uses of the Grave opens Up its nephesh to swallow up all of the Living when they die this Vivid image of How everybody dies they go down the

Nephesh of the Grave okay the throat of The Grave the throat and then there's a Handful of other places where ah in Psalm 42 43 where he says my nephesh Um in a dry and thirsty land my nephesh Aches for you oh Lord Um oh we translate that soul my soul Thirsts for you yeah but what he means I'm thirst and I'm my throat is thirsty Yeah he's talking about a thirsty throat As a metaphor for longing for God as This source of life and love but Unfortunately it gets translated as soul In our English translations but what he Means is My well My throat thirsts for you is an image of His whole being so your throat's a Pretty important part Of your body of your body yeah yeah it Could connect your body to your head Yeah for one but two it's this Passageway for air and food right and The moment you close that thing off You're done Oh yeah sure if there's anything that's That functions as as important as we Think the brain now we know the brain is Like the central thing without it the Whole system doesn't work right uh it Seems like in Hebrew thought the nephesh The throat is that Central thing without It everything shuts down sure like the Probably the fastest way to kill someone

Just Chomp your head up that's right so Your net so the nephesh then becomes an Image that stands for A creature as a whole living breathing Creature uh so what so when I would say My my throat thirsts for you I'm Actually using that as my whole being as A living creature as a way to describe My whole my whole being yeah and in in We we use what's the what's the term for Using apart yeah yeah the the literary Term is metonymy where you use one part Of a thing to stand for the whole thing Okay that's just a that's just a Literary technique yeah we we talk like That all the time yeah we talk about Um Uh oh yeah yeah A nice set of wheels referring to my car Yeah so you use one part of the car Wheels to refer to the whole car yeah And you know what I'm doing yeah and Yeah you're talking in like 50 slangs So the same way when someone said like My throat thirsts you realize like oh They're talking about their whole being Not yeah when the Thomas says my nephesh Thirsts for you my throat thirsts for You what he's saying is my whole being Yeah thirst for you so nephesh just Refers to a creature as a living Breathing being and nephesh can refer to Humans nephesh can refer to animals Um so it's the most common way that uh

Nephesh could be translated is just Um living living person or living being Or your being I actually think the English word being hmm kind of gets it's A better translation yeah but but we got The word Soul because of Tyndale Yeah yeah in the earliest English Translations of the Bible from Hebrew Um they rendered it with the word soul And actually in older English the word Soul meant Us could also mean living Well here I just looked it up an Old English sowol Spiritual and emotional part of a person Animate existence life living being yeah Yeah yeah that's yeah animate being yeah So you could say Yeah in older English You could say there were 70 Souls aboard The ship right or something like that Yeah and Pilots still say that yeah Airline pilots do so really yeah are you Serious yeah to this day they always Refer to any passenger as a soul when They count them wow we've got 100. That's a survival of that yeah that's uh Archaic survival of the older English Meaning of soul yeah they're not being Spiritual for a second going like let's Not yeah Eternal Souls yeah that's not what the Airline pilot means no so yeah in Modern English Um the word Soul has shifted yeah it's

Lost that older meaning and it's met This disembodied part of you that's why I think Um our modern in my humble opinion our Modern English translations should drop The word Soul Man well that would be a Disaster But it would be accurate Because language is change yeah you Can't when did when did Soul start Meaning a disembodied part of you rather Than well I think it always I think it Always I think it always meant that the English word Um but it the point is it stopped Meaning just living breathing creature As one of its main meanings in English At some point that dropped from English Usage And then it leads to I I think A a common misunderstanding of these Biblical passages that use the word soul But at some point People started using the word soul to Not to not say that you're a living Being but to say that you have a part of You that extends Beyond okay well your Body so I I think that goes then into Our next the next question oh okay that You told me about yeah Brian's question Brian's question okay before we get to Brian's questions to make sure we we Answer this question Spirit

Uh ruach and nephesh is what animates me Okay nephesh is just referring to me as An animated living breathing creature And there's times that those are both uh Translated as Spirit yep and depending On context yeah yeah it just depends on Context okay all right Brian has a question about moving now Out of Hebrew thought into Greek thought Because the new testament's written in Greek and here's here's Brian's question Hi John and Tim in your podcast you Talked about the Holy Spirit in the New Testament through the lens of the Hebrew Bible and my question is with the Culture shift that happens in the New Testament do the New Testament writers Ever interact with Greek concepts of Spirit as opposed to Hebrew Bible Concepts in other words does the Holy Spirit as talked about in the New Testament ever relate with ideas in the Greco-Roman world or is it pretty much Always in connection with Jewish ideas Thank you very much I'm a big fan of the Bible project thanks Brian yeah super Great question really perceptive Um So one just thinking in terms of Cultures Um you know no no culture exists in a Vacuum Ancient Israelite culture was a part of The broader Canaanite ancient near

Eastern culture and that's why their Vocabulary images poetry all is very Similar so in the same way yeah Um as a Jewish culture Came to interact with the spread of Greek culture through Alexander the Great sweeping Empire goes east yeah so Jewish thought became really influenced By Greek ideas Greek vocabulary so Imagine you know you're an apostle Paul Yep Um or and you grew up educated you know In Tarsus and so so Paul's deeply aware Which would have meant he was educated In Greek thought yeah yeah there's Actually lots of speculation about what His education was okay but you can read Ancient Greek and Roman authors and be Pretty sure like oh yeah Paul was he Memorized this text as a part of the Education Paul writes like Seneca the Insurance And so on so but that's just standard Education at the time in the place that He lived But but that's not the question isn't Just did he learn Greek and learn how to Write we're asking what shapes the Fundamental worldview yeah of Um the followers of Jesus yeah and Um there I think we're safe to say the Fundamental shape of the world view is The Hebrew scriptures that what we call The Old Testament

Um however Um they learned Greek the Greek of the New Testament actually to like Scholars Of classical Greek reads very odd it's Odd Greek to them because it sounds like Hebrew in Greek people call it Semitic Greek okay or because they're actually Thinking in Hebrew still but they're Using Greek words correct oh yeah yeah And so a great example of that is Spirit Or pneuma Um so Greek culture was extremely Diverse sure as diverse as saying what Do Americans believe about God okay well It's like okay yeah so what what did Greeks think about Spirit Well all sorts Of things all sorts of things One of the most influential Traditions However is represented by Plato and Aristotle this intellectual tradition Um called platonism which it's a view It's a world view that says the material World that we exist in Is actually not the fully real it's a Shadow like he had this fame the famous Parable the Cave of the cave yeah yeah That we are we see Reflections yeah We're like people who Um are sitting in a cave looking at the Cave wall yeah and all we see are Reflections of the Shadows of what's Happening outside the cave yeah So the whole point is that the material World isn't actually what's really real

What's really real is the non-material The perfect ideal which embodied Philosophical thought and so on that's That's a very influential view in Greek Culture that's fundamentally at odds With the with the Hebrew scriptures view Of the world which is the world that We're in Israel reality this is it uh And it's capable of becoming so much More than it currently is but what's Keeping it from that is moral corruption And the limits of mortality and death And um so in platonic thought you can Leave this existence and enter some Better yeah this existence is second It's a second rate prison right your Body's a prison and and so how this is Relevant to Spirit then is your spirit In this train of thought the Greek word Newman is the real part of you is the Real part of you that lives on or you Hope it lives on uh and can attain a Finally ideal or perfect form of Existence now that's not Hebrews it's Just so different Yeah yeah in the Hebrew scriptures Spirit is a gift of God that animates You as a nephesh a living creature yeah And what you're hoping for is for The Liberation and Redemption of this world From Injustice and decay Um Yeah so that your body can live in this

World but in a new recreated state New Creation Um so in that sense the the New Testament author is Paul they are Thoroughly Hebrew in how they use the Word pneuma they don't try to start to Synchronize Greek thought with Hebrew Thought Um well okay but Paul's the consummate Missionary he's he's a strategist so he Reads the literature of his Contemporaries and so when yeah you can See in his letters to Corinth the Corinthians or the Philippians That he is familiar with these Traditions and he'll adapt his Vocabulary sometimes Um to their ways of thinking but he Doesn't adapt his worldview he'll he'll Use vocabulary like for example in this Letter to the uh to Titus which is um Two Church communities on the island of Crete his vocabulary through that letter Is just chock full of really unique Things that connect with cretan culture About Specifically truth and so that's just One example so but what you Um I mean it's always in the particulars You just have to look at particular text But on the whole Paul adapts his Vocabulary But he his worldview is fundamentally Shaped by the scriptures okay

So in in in Greek we've got the word Pneuma which is a translation of the Hebrew word ruach and it's used pretty Consistently that way yeah yeah refer to Uh the part of you Uh that is just the breath that you have That comes from God or the part of you The non-material Ideas and thoughts and purposes okay That represent you or that come from you And that produce visible effects in the World now in Greek there's a there's Another word that's not in Hebrew Because we've talked about in Hebrew There's no word for brain or mind yes Yeah yeah but in Greek there is yeah and That word is um yeah and uh uh yeah I'll Just I have to I would have to do more Homework it's not all fresh off the top Of my head but but Paul can talk about God's spirit influencing his Spirit Um or your spirit so it's the part of You that's capable of being influenced But Paul also talks about my mind as a Place of rational purpose and thought Yeah and that our minds are also renewed Or recreated or transformed by the work Of God's spirit yeah so I think we're back to the Venn diagram The circles over left for Paul Mind and Spirit have kind of this overlapping Piece of its yeah and what's that in Greek mind angry uh news news Okay so the so okay and then but there's

Also the word uh suke Oh yeah okay that's the New Testament Greek equivalent of nephesh okay uh so It usually gets translated as soul in The New Testament oh okay Um and there's actually okay and so this Is where we come to it there's two Places only two Where uh once from in the teaching of Jesus and once in Revelation where the Word suke which usually get it's where Our words psyche or psychology Psychiatry it's the psych part of that Word yeah not the psychism psych the Late 80s slang term it's like Um Also it's it it's basically nephesh you As a living being okay Um but there's two places once in the Teaching of Jesus where he says Don't Fear those who can just kill you Your body your body uh fear the one who Has authority over your body and your Suke and can assign both to destruction He says so Jesus says this sense somehow That that in the final judgment your uh Or at least at death your body and your Suke can part ways yeah okay whoa so Stop there because yep that's different Than what you're saying it is different It is it's totally different so in Hebrew thought your body dies and that's It yeah you go to the grave and you hope That God will redeem

From the grave meaning Resurrection yeah Yeah so for this for there to be an Option for your body to die but then you Still have this this other thing yeah That can also then be destroyed yeah so Jesus is unique like he's he's clearly Jesus has done some reflection and uh Jewish literature in the time of Jesus Has really Progressed from the Hebrew scriptures to Develop more thinking on this okay so if The grave is where you sit after death But there is this hope of God redeeming My life from the grave that's the poet Says in Psalm 49 or of Resurrection in Isaiah or Daniel then what is that What's the in-between time yeah uh Because you don't stop existing Apparently yeah what is that state of Being yeah the Old Testament just as Nothing just doesn't it just uses the Metaphor of sleep you go to sleep Huh when you die and then you wake up Which is interesting because when you When you're sleeping yeah that's what Where are you yeah what's your Perception of time totally changes in Sleep Um and so by Jesus's day yeah there's Lots of uh Jewish authors exploring this And so Jesus himself recognizes that Well there's your suke can part ways With your body and still exist Now we're talking about yeah you're not

A living breathing animate being because Your body's gone yeah but the word suke Still stands for the you It's you this so now this is where it Seems like it's turning to not mean soul In the Old English sense than to mean it Is it in the modern that's exactly right That's what I'm saying it's a unique uh But it's the exam it's the unique Exception that proves the rule that this Usage in the line of Jesus stands out Um and there's one other usage that's Like this in the Revelation where John Sees the tsuke of a whole bunch of Christian Martyrs who were killed by the Romans and they are in God's Temple Pleading for God to bring Justice for Their innocent blood so it's once again And now it's a vision yeah of the Heavenly Temple and so on but it's just This idea that Um God's people Exist in some form Uh after the death of their bodies but Before resurrection and this is what Paul seems to mean when he just says to Be when I die I'll be with the Messiah Or to be a part from my body is to be With the Lord so I can still have a Category of this disembodied State yes Yeah but It's fundamentally different from the Greek concept because it's not Uh permanent and it's not better and

It's not better it's actually awkward Um the ideal is to have a nephesh embody And spirit altogether because we're Earthlings we're fundamentally Earthlings not Spirit Um In the biblical world view so Yeah this in between period Of at what we call the afterlife yeah Yeah because I I kind of grew up Thinking that's the ideal I don't know What I pictured it as yeah but this Ideal of which comes from yeah platonic Thought yeah being this and the biblical Authors acknowledge that there must be Some form of in-between existence yeah But they no biblical author explores What that is or what is like the only Information given about it is a metaphor Called being asleep Jesus refers to it but Jesus refers to It yeah and John and John yeah Visionary Image those are only two times where We're talked about having it yeah uh That I'm I'm aware of I remember when I First realized all of this I began Reading and then I just went through all The uses of tsuke and spirit in the New Testament and last time I looked at my Notes those are the only two I can find Interesting in the Bible we've talked About this a lot before how I have Struggled with just coming to grips with Having a body being a body yeah and I

Think part of that does come from the Tradition of really valuing this idea of A disembodied State and so even my Spirituality now because I'm hoping one Day to be kind of released from this Body in heaven yeah and so even now to Be spiritual means to get rid of yeah my Body leave your body which is usually Connected with of a world a whole Worldview about where this what story I'm living in and where the story's Going which is about leaving the world Yeah And you're saying that it's actually Awkward like I that would be a weird yes And and temporary yeah thing it's not Explored much in the Bible at all no Maybe two times yeah Jesus and the Apostles would look at us very strangely When if they heard us sing I'll Fly Away Oh Glory I'll Fly Away Win by and by you know yeah I've always Had a really hard time with that song Interesting because it's so not how the Biblical authors write or think Hmm Man I want to talk more about Jesus Saying that That thing yeah it's a fascinating Teaching but I don't think we have time I think we should move on maybe another Time yeah thank you thank you Brian Yeah I hope to help Brian uh all right This next question is Catherine Johnson Good morning Tim and John my name is

Catherine and here's my question Based upon your description of the human Spirit as volition would you then Conclude that a person in a coma or on Life support would not have a Functioning human spirit And if so then how do we explain the Stories of these people responding with Say a more rapid heartbeat to a loved One walking into their hospital room Could there be more to the consciousness Of the human Spirit than simply volition Thanks so much Yeah thank you Catherine that's a really Really perceptive question Um so yeah one when I heard that heard Your question it made me want to clarify Um yeah what we're not saying is what Defines a human As a Living breathing creature or defines Human consciousness is the ability to Have volition that's yeah that's not What we're saying Um what we're saying is in Hebrew Um the when the word Spirit refers to The human Spirit if you look at all of Those uses what you see in common is It's talking about thoughts or purposes That are not visible but that have a Produce a visible effect in the world Um Your question Catherine is a great one About just the broader biblical vision

Of what constitutes Him a human yeah and a human being a Mind-body spirit Tale interacting as a whole yeah having Divine breath having our own internal State of yeah of energy image of God Relational capacity rationality and so On so yeah I wouldn't want to reduce That full big robust vision of humanity To just volition or conscious reasoning Or purpose Um because you're right that doesn't Account for Um All kinds of human beings you know who May be because of how their brains Formed in a certain way they aren't able Just because of the actual physical Shape of their brain to connect cause And effect you know and and produce uh Uh choices or make choices based on this Effect Edit this part out Okay So yeah what we don't want to do is say It somehow we're reducing this robust Vision of what humans are just a Conscious purpose there's all kinds of Human beings that are made in God's Image that because of maybe how their Brains formed they have reduced Capability of making rational choices or Something something like that but They're still humans an unconscious

Human is still still a human a human Reflecting the image of God and is Breathing God throughout and so on yeah Yeah so you know if her question is Um does an unconscious person have a Ruach Um or how uh I I guess it depends on how You're using that word yeah that's right Right yeah because if you're saying if There's a reason have the Divine Breath Of Life Yeah well yeah they do yeah They're still alive if you are saying They have a ruach in the sense that they Have their own internal subjective Volition well at that moment moment it Kind of doesn't seem like they do Although what she's saying is there There is now medical science that Something might be going on that's right Yeah they might they're still responding To things yeah maybe it's unconsciously Yeah yeah uh but I guess the question Then becomes and this is getting really Nerdy does in Hebrew is there any word To talk about an unconscious action yeah Not in Biblical Hebrew yeah and which Isn't to say they didn't have a Conception of that it's just to say in The literature of the Hebrew Bible Yeah something like that is never Described right Um so if I walked into a person in a Coma and and uh and I'm using Biblical Hebrew

Um we don't really know what they would Say about that person they might say That they're whatever they have the Ruach of Life yeah still yeah but in Their living breathing human made in God's image but this idea of when Biblical authors talk about uh deciding Things in my ruach or the deceit in my Ruach that wouldn't apply to that person Anymore correct yeah um so in that sense Yeah for your question Catherine we we Were trying to define the meaning of Ruach the word ruach we were not trying To define the meaning of the human Spirit right when we in English say Spirit and we mean something more that's Right yeah Um yeah something something more so Whatever Jesus was talking about yeah Yeah soul Mind Body Spirit yeah yeah all That okay yeah So so yeah it's again once again it's Categories it's very difficult for us To come into the biblical worldview Because our worldview and for all these Words is shaped by this was much simpler For me before because I had a body I had a mind And I had a soul yeah right yeah yeah so My body is just my physiology my mind is Part of that but it allows me to have Rational thought and then my soul is Some mystical non-material non-material Part of me that yeah it is actually more

Me than anything else and it will live On yeah and that was that was a lot Easier those categories are easy for me Yeah and now you're giving me categories That are messy Are not as simple but that are faithful To the Bible Or at least to the biblical author's way Of using this vocabulary yeah Okay thank you Catherine thank you Catherine that's a very thoughtful Question okay moving on we are going to Take a question from Zeb Overton Hi John Tim Zeb here listen you guys are Doing a great job keep it up uh my Question for you Tim is that you Mentioned in the second episode that Paul's mention of spiritual gifts is not Necessarily a comprehensive list but it Can be viewed as examples of God's Empowering or creative work within Someone What evidence is there to suggest that These are examples and not a Comprehensive list thanks bye It's a great question Um yeah great question Um there's differing opinions about how To answer this question so I'll just say That up front Um but here's at least how it things Seem to me if you look in first Corinthians 12 Paul talks about the the

Gifts uh these empowerments by the Spirit Um he lists uh nine there Um however if you look in chapters 13 And 14 When he continues to talk about Different empowerments of the spirit he Doesn't just stick to those nine he Focuses in on certain ones that the Corinthians are having problems with but Then you go to Romans chapter 12 and he Talks about these gifts or empowerments Graces that God can use to build up the Church and it's a different list there's A few that overlap with First Corinthians 12 but there are some that Are new and different there Um if you look at another list of these Gifts in Ephesians 4 paulus 5 Um and they don't really overlap with Either of the other two and then you Look at Peters in First Peter chapter Four he has a list of these gifts uh That God Graces the church with and uh It's a different list too so how many Spiritual gifts are there are there just The the list from First Corinthians 12 Are there just nine or are there 13 if You had Romans 12 are there 17 are they You get my point Um and then you have to look at like What's missing that you think might be There so in other words there's Faith Gifts of Faith or Administration or

Leadership but there's no particular Gift of just prayer there's praying in Tongues there's prophecy there's no gift Of prayer so I think when you kind of Add that all up it seems to me Paul's Um he mentions different gifts that are Relevant to the different audiences and The needs that he's addressing but he Seems to have a big concept of just Potentials within people that the spirit Can influence and activate to build up The local Church community and uh There I think that should lead us Comparing those four lists to think that There are probably many more that the Spirit can activate than just the ones That are mentioned And and if I said well it's really Important to me that this is a Comprehensive list like that's important To me yeah what would you say I Say that's that's fine that's fine That's fine if you think that that's Fine I don't think that okay but that's Okay we can follow together and just Disagree about that but that all would You start talking about your spiritual Gift of uh I don't know I don't know Yeah I don't know yeah no I mean you Don't want to make it trivial I have the Gift of chewing bubble gum or something That's ridiculous but I think what's Cool about this idea of empowering to be More human is yeah what there's there's

Actually this thing that I've noticed a Lot in the 21st century which is the Sense of vocational calling like I There's something I was meant to do God Wants me to do with my life and if That's true then he probably is Empowering you to do it and uh and then How is that different than Um a spiritual gift yeah that's Interesting uh I mean the gifts as They're mentioned in all four of those Passages are specifically the way Someone can leverage these potentials Within them for the good of their local Community of Jesus followers Um so Paul he doesn't mention it in Terms of like career vocation calling Which doesn't mean we shouldn't think About it that way but I'm just saying The biblical language of gifts or graces Are always gifts to the church by the Spirit sure okay yeah yeah Um here's a question from Brandon Post Hey guys my name is Brandon Post I'm From Oklahoma City Oklahoma I guess my Questions that that I have are in Regards to spiritual gifts passages like First Corinthians 12 through 14. can I Get you to just talk about the the Different miraculous spiritual gifts uh In in First Corinthians 12 and uh Working the Miracles and Gifts of Healings and prophecy and tongues and Words of wisdom and knowledge and then

Like in First Corinthians 14 Paul says Pursue love earnestly desire spiritual Gifts especially that you may prophesy Uh thank you guys for what you're doing Uh it really does benefit me and my Family thank you very much Yeah this is a really extremely complex Uh topic and a controversial one through Church history so real this just take Everything I say with a grain of salt This is My take and I wouldn't even say it's Fully formed asking me in five years and All reflected on this more But here's one thing that I won't say Different for five years from now is That our vocabulary about this is really Fascinating and it differs from the Tradition from well it differs from the Biblical vocabulary on it for example The phrase spiritual gift actually Doesn't occur in the Bible it occurs in Our English translation but it doesn't Occur in the text that the apostles Wrote Um because they didn't speak English They didn't speak English so of course It didn't yeah but you're saying the Phrase spiritual gifts doesn't even Appear in the Greek and Greek that would Be something like uh so here's where This phrase comes from it comes from Paul's first letter to Corinthians Chapter 12. and I'm just reading from

The New American Standard now concerning Spiritual gifts yeah others I don't want You to be unaware Um if you look however the word gifts There is in italics in The New American Standard and that's always their way of Cluing you into dear reader this word Doesn't represent anything in the Original language we're just saying it In English to help it makes sense to Help make a sensible translation Literally what Paul says is Spirituals Or spiritual things Um So what in other words what he's saying Is what is now concerning things that The spirit does Concerning the activities and Manifestations of the spirit I don't Want you to be ignorant and then he goes On in verse 4 to talk about now there Are a variety of gifts that uses the Word gift which is the Greek word Charisma Charisma but the Same Spirit So Paul views The gifts as being activated and Empowered by the spirit but he actually Doesn't himself ever use this phrase Spiritual gifts and the reason why That's important is because the moment You use the phrase spiritual gifts You get this conception that your Spiritual gift is like your Christian Superpower yeah absolutely and it's like

You have that one and I have this one as Opposed that's not I don't think that's At all what Paul's saying what he's Saying is there are things that the Spirit does And there is a variety of ways that the Spirit can Empower or influence people He calls these gifts or Graces and then He goes on Um and he comes he's talking about the Variety a variety of gifts a variety of Ministries a variety of effects or Workings So I don't think we should Envision you Just have the gift of whatever like you Were a normal human and then you became A Christian and now you have then you've Got power healing or you've got Administration yeah or you got Leadership I got healing power three and You have healing power yeah totally yeah I don't I think weird totally imposing a Foreign idea on Paul there I think his Uh His conception is the spirit Works in a Variety of ways in a local church body And over the course of a lifetime a Spirit can use the same person in a Variety of different ways and that Um it's not not like you just get one And that's your your Christian Superpower so anyway that's just the Kind of opening uh preface and then what Do you say you know you read the book of

Acts you read Uh Paul's letters and Um The the missionary Efforts church planting Discipleship the way people were taught How to follow Jesus involved really Remarkable experiences of Jesus presence And of the spirit But it's just clear that was and that Something happened at Pentecost to the First circle of Jesus's followers that Was remarkable that was inexplicable Uh except by saying this is God's spirit At work So the question of course is Whether those things continue to Mark The church's experience or if they don't Mark someone's experience is that a Problem because Paul says like keep Pursuing these things Um You know so there's a line in the Gospel Of John where Jesus is talking about Nicodemus and he says the spirit blows Where it Wills Speaking about the spirit And I think there's there's something to That the the spirit doesn't have to work In the same way At every period of history and in every Culture I don't know why we should Necessarily think that Um

But so uh and there are many times in Church history where these kinds of like Experiences and activities have marked The the life of local churches and People usually in connections of new Movements of the Jesus people into new Cultures and new places But I actually do think uh that Cultivating this awareness of the spirit Is supposed to be a part of our Christian experience it it hasn't really Been a part of mine And that's something I'm still working Out because I'm just so open to that but It just hasn't ever been a part of my Experience so I'm kind of waiting for it To be honest with you but uh Um There's a lot of podcast listeners now Praying for you yes or some sort of yeah And I think and but here's the thing is What Paul says is there's a variety of Ways that the spirit works yeah and so I've got this thing for being buried in Books and teaching and that's one of the Ways that the spirit works and I feel Most alive to Jesus when I'm reading and Studying and learning and then teaching And it's not true for my wife for her Um it's when she's leading something and Organizing something that's really Disorganized and in a way that helps People and she's incredible leader that Way and there's just different people

Different ways that different people are Alive in the spirit Um so that's just about spiritual gifts In general not so much about the what we Usually call the miraculous yeah the Miraculous gifts and so I you know I Don't think maybe we should speak to it Because we just don't have the The history with it yeah but are there Obviously abuses of it but there are Also abuses of Christian leadership They're abusive Christian teachers yeah Exactly they're abused it's not like uh Somehow people Um healing others in like a credit card Scam Healing Ministry that they have the Monopoly on just being yeah just because There's been abuses doesn't mean it's It's all bad yeah that's right and um Yeah and don't put the spirit in a box In a box yeah so that's my take and uh There are other people who could really Speak more powerfully to that but yeah It's quote me okay speaking of Miraculous gifts then here's a question From Maggie hi Tim and John this is Maggie from Wisconsin I just finished Listening to your Holy Spirit podcast to The third one Um and I feel like a lot of people are Going to have this question but you Talked about how there's been a lot of Debate in church history about speaking In tongues and I'm assuming well there's

The natural gifts go along with that Could you expand on some of the debates And the different valid points of view If there is more than one valid point of View or maybe There you just see that there's one Valid point of view I don't know but Um I would love to hear more about that And I'm sure other people ask that Question as well but um thank you guys For covering this topic Yeah thank you Maggie it's a great Question Um let's start with what's not Controversial so what what is happening In the New Testament Um there's two different books of the New Testament that talk about this and The question is how they relate to each Other so you have Acts chapter 2 Pentecost there's Um uh the group of Jesus's followers the Holy Spirit comes on them and they start Speaking with other tongues which means In other languages and then at what There's all these Israelites there for The feast and Jerusalem and each one of Them is hearing them speak in their own Language or in their own tongue and then Luke gives a long list Of all the different cultures and Languages represented so that's Remarkable the spirit empowers them to Both speak but then also it draws

Attention like three times in the text To that they're the listeners are Hearing these people speak in their own Language so this seems like the spirit Doing something remarkable Um so that more and different kinds of People there's a cultural boundary lines Not Jewish boundary lines everybody There's Jewish but cultural backgrounds Being boundary lines being crossed over So that's Acts chapter two they're human Languages they're meaningful In uh when Paul writes to the Corinthians in First Corinthians 12 he Makes clear that he's addressing a set Of problems related to a local Church Community not like going out in the Streets but when they gather for the Sunday Gathering some people are in the Worship Gathering when they're singing Him or they're praying start speaking Aloud in languages that nobody knows Like the point is they're not human Languages Um and Paul calls this Um praying in tongues so what is this Well as it goes on to describe it he Talks about how praying in tongues he Says um you can pray uh engaging your Mind but he says that tongues is praying With your spirit Apart from your mind that's how he Describes this phenomenon and he says That it's not directed to other people

It's directed to God so here Paul seems To be talking about something different Um like a spiritual prayer language is What it's called in some traditions Where it's a way that you talk to God Purely on an emotional level And you do it without letting your mind Form meaningful language but you just Let your mouth give utterance to what You feel and every language has words Like this actually like You know like hi karumba that's probably Yeah that actually means something but No yeah like gibberish but that it has Become a part of our language Yikes you know so we all are and these Have become meaningful words but what They represent is moments where your Mind doesn't filter hmm what you're Saying and you just say whatever sounds Express what you're feeling and it seems To me that's what Paul's describing in In First Corinthians 12. oh interesting 14. so how did that become practice in The Church of Corinth then I don't know the answer to that question And that part however early early Christians weren't the only ones doing This Um this was a common Form of prayer and ecstatic trances in Other Greek and Roman religions okay Um so it might have been imported from a Different tradition that's why when Paul

Opens up the conversation about this in First Corinthians 12 he says Hey listen Um you know that when you were pagans You were LED astray to mute Idols Everywhere you were LED and so let me Tell you no one is speaking by the Spirit of God Who says Let Jesus be cursed and no one Can say Jesus is Lord except by the holy Spirit so what he's saying is there's Lots of lots of spiritually empowered People in touch with spiritual Powers Yeah that are real and that will Influence you doing some spiritual yeah We are the community that when the Spirits at work what you'll know clearly Is that Jesus Is at the center of all of it for Paul The spirit always points people to Jesus Not just so he was aware that there was Other people doing correct uh very Seemingly Spirit empowered stuff yeah And because he says if people walk into Our gathering and what they see is a Bunch of people speaking aloud in these Prayer languages what they're going to Say is these people are crazy but the Word that he says is referring to this Pagan practice of babbling in transforms Oh so they would have come in and not Said hey these guys forgot their meds Yeah they would have said oh yeah this Is like the app what the people do at The Aphrodite yeah I've seen this before

I've seen this before yeah and so what Paul wants is anytime anyone comes into Contact with a follower of Jesus under The influence of the spirit he wants That person to know immediately that It's Jesus this is this isn't just Another correct yeah what's what was it Called babbling baby yeah babbling yeah Yeah just another one of those sessions This is something yeah oh these are People who have been changed by the love Of Jesus and are expressing their Devotion to him wow I didn't know that So I I think uh praying in tongues is Something that the Spirit uh gifts some Followers of Jesus with as a very Meaningful way for them to connect to Jesus Um and Paul says he does it himself but He says what he'd rather do in in the Sunny Gathering is speak in normal Language So that people can understand and that If you want to do that in your own space In a way that doesn't distract other People then do that or have somebody There who's going to translate what You're saying and he lumps tongues in With other miraculous gifts in which List is it it's in the crew uh in First Corinthians 12 and 14 he's playing Prophecy which is using your mind that's Been reflecting on scripture that's been Filled with songs about Jesus and and

Then you sense that the spirit is using Your mind saturated in scripture to say A specific word of encouragement or Challenge to the whole Community or to a Specific person but you do it in your Language yeah the point is you do it With your language and language the Other person knows yeah So and is there a sense that Paul found A lot of value in these Like when he says the greater gifts or Or seek yes yeah for Paul the greater The greater thing is love love to act in Love but then when he says seek the Greater gifts is that what he says in First Corinthians 14 uh Pursue love yet Earnestly desire spirituals spirituals Yeah oh okay but especially that you Could prophesy because prophesying is a Way of through you And your mind saturated in scripture and Jesus death that the spirit can speak to Encourage other people in a way they Understand cool yeah Okay let's keep moving this next Question is from Paige ledlow At the time of Pentecost and acts the Jewish people were gathered to celebrate The Festival of Shavuot it is clear that It was always God's plan to have the Holy Spirit make its Grand entry on this Particular day are there any symbols Traditions or practices that are unique

To this holiday that could shed light on The character of the Holy Spirit how it Works in our lives or God's character Thank you Yeah Paige good question thank you Um yes so Pentecost is a pretty iconic Moment in the New Testament it's when The Holy Spirit does that crazy thing That happened Um in Acts the book of Acts chapter 2. So Um why why That feast in Israel's calendar why did It happen then Um so one just hold on let's back up Crazy the crazy thing being all the Disciples are together yes and Jesus Told his disciples to wait in Jerusalem After the resurrection and he says You're going to be clothed with power to Become my witnesses to all the nations Of the earth about the good news of the Resurrection and the kingdom of God and So what is that source of power Um that is what is told for us in the Story of Pentecost in the book of Acts Chapter 2. okay so they're having a Prayer meeting the followers of Jesus a Little over 100 people and then the room Fills with a violent wind rushing and Then there's Temple Glory fire over Every individual person and they start Speaking in other languages okay and so And so the question is why did this

Happen during the Festival of so Jesus Um is its Hebrew name which is means Weeks sevens is what the word means Weeks and then in Greek that Feast was Called pentecoste which means 50. Um and that because it's 50 days it's Seven sevenths 49 49ers on the 50th day Is when this Feast was after uh over Okay and so Jesus was crucified On Passover weekend and then Resurrection and then there see Jesus Over a period of 40-ish days we're told Oh and then they're waiting in Jerusalem And then this and this happened so the Question you know Paige's question is is There something about The Feast of Weeks or Shavuot right Because it's because there's something Very significant about the Passover meal Yeah that's right that was really Important for Jesus death that was Intentional the symbolism very Intentional it was the same Intentionality as Chris Feast yeah so There were three Um pilgrimage Faith in Israel's calendar from ancient Times where everybody's supposed to come To Jerusalem So Passover Um Pentecost or the Feast of Weeks and Then Um Sukkot or Tabernacles Um so and they're both uh they're

Harvest festivals so this is a late Spring Pentecost is a late spring Harvest Festival when I forget the wheat Or The Barley would come and then you Celebrate that so their agricultural Feasts is how they began they get so Um within the Hebrew Bible the meaning Of the Feast of Weeks is never given a Symbol like Passover was Um and Somewhere In the period the Second temple period Um the Pentecost if if Passover was About the Exodus then Pentecost Uh became linked to the key event after The Exodus which was arriving at Mount Sinai and the giving of the Torah and The making of the Covenant so the thing Is we don't know precisely when that Happened it was after the Hebrew Scriptures were already put together So it was somewhere in the second temple Period And so Bible nerds debate whether That was an active symbolic meaning Already in Jesus day about the meaning Of the feast because their later Developed practices about reading the Torah you gather to read together the Covenant making story from Book of Exodus on at Pentecost at the Feast of Weeks so we don't know it's not meant The only Jewish literature that mentions It is from the talmud which postates the New Testament but maybe they were doing It already so if this was just a

Speculation if however that was active In everybody's Minds that at Pentecost We're celebrating the Harvest Festival And we're celebrating the gift of the Torah that came with Wind and Fire and Cloud on Mount Sinai A pretty close connection to the giving Of the spirit coming in Wind and Fire on The New Covenant people of Jesus and Riding the Torah on their hearts like Jeremiah says when the spirit comes or Yeah so anyway Um that's the closest connection seems Very likely Yeah it's there's a there's a strong Possibility but that we keep you know I Wouldn't uh bet a horse on it you're in The habit of betting in units no I don't Know why I said that I don't I've never Even been to horse race but oh I see Yeah okay this next question comes from Logan Roland Hey guys you know the work being done at The Bible project has been my number one Resource in both deconstruction and Reconstruction of my faith I'd love to Be a part of what you guys are doing Someday I actually have a few questions And I hope that's okay one what in the World is going on in Acts 8 and 19 and I Think some other places where the laying On of hands is required for some to Receive the Holy Spirit and to piggyback Off of that number two is there seems to

Be this kind of certainty presented in Acts about who has the Holy Spirit and Who doesn't how do we know if we or Someone else has received the Holy Spirit and even more like what in the World does that even mean three how Should understanding the meaning of the Holy spirit that you have presented Change the way we live our lives as well As present the gospel hey guys thank you For all that you do All right Logan that was like Logan Logan with the third partner a shotgun Strategy this fire many questions at Once and uh see what sticks Um Yes okay well in terms of the laying on Of hands uh and receiving the spirit So here's one thing to start Um the in the book of Acts and actually The whole new testament there's a really Diverse Vocabulary to describe what happens when The spirit Does what the spirit does to people Um and there's a small number of times That's connected with can we stop there Yes what the spirit does to people Because we talked about two different Kind of things that the spirit could do To people yes empowering people correct Yep yeah like yep like what's that guy's Name I always forget his name And uh yeah Joseph appointing them for a

Task but then also this hope for kind of Being recreated yep you're being Recreated yep moral ethical and then Transformation physical renewal yeah Yeah So here's what's interesting I just have A short list here here's all of the Vocabulary words connected with That what you just described so in the New Testament you can be baptized with The spirit you can be clothed with the Spirit the spirit can come upon people It can fall upon people it can be poured Out on people people can receive the Spirit be filled with the spirit be full Of the Holy Spirit or be filled by Spirit So and and if you go through all of Those different words spread across the Different acts gospels letters of Paul Peter and John and so on it's very Similar what it seems like didn't happen Is that they sat down glossary had like A council meeting of now everybody when You use the word receive yeah mean this When you're filled with the spirit yeah This is what you mean yeah and that Difference from differs from being Baptized in spirit and to this you could Also add to the list Um what's happening in the in the Narrative about how people receive the Spirit and there's a small number you Name them uh Logan Acts chapter 8

Chapter 19 where it happens by someone Laying on hands and laying their hands On another person and praying for them Um but there are lots of places where That doesn't happen so it's not like it Wasn't required but yeah it doesn't seem Like it was required rather there were Moments or situations where the Symbolism laying on hands which is very Israelite symbolism priests were Appointed with the laying on of hands It's a it's a leadership appointing Symbol Paul talks about this he would um Commission uh leaders in local churches By laying on of hands he says don't lay Hands on anybody too quickly Um in a local church meaning don't Appoint them to leadership before you Know them really well so it was just it Was a meaningful symbol of commissioning And sharing and participating and Apparently there were times Where the apostles were out there doing Their thing And when somebody decided to give their Allegiance to Jesus they laid hands on Them and prayed for them and then Something remarkable happened which Opens up the next question uh Logan Which was it seems fairly clear in the Book of Acts when somebody be comes Under the influence of the spirit right Um so is that how it's always supposed To be

Are there places where it's less clear Um So let's remember the book of Acts is Talking about decades Of Time time Um and Luke has been doing eyewitness You know his eyewitness investigation so He's collected together and condensed Decades worth of stories from all over The ancient world Of the Jesus movement into one literary Narrative the greatest hits yeah so in a Sense this is something of like the Greatest hits of the holy spirit So we would expect to find the most Dramatic Stories of things this Spirit was up to Here in the book of Acts Um so it feels like this was everyday Life but actually Each of these stories is only happening In one place far away from the other Place that happened and separated by Eight years or something so it's good to Remember that and that about maps on to I think my own I've been a follower of Jesus for 20 years and I've seen a Handful of remarkable things happen the Uh I think the Holy Spirit was up to and There's just a handful yeah they're like Wasn't every week yeah and I think That's about what's happening in the Book of Acts too

So what seems to be more the day-to-day Um Of life in the spirit is the kind of Thing that Paul talks about in his Letters which isn't the what he calls The baptism of the spirit or that's in The book of Acts which is that when Somebody becomes immersed in Jesus's Life and love and they become immersed In part of the New Covenant people of Jesus The word baptism is used to describe That event some people call that the Salvation event okay but then and Sometimes the word being filled up with The spirit can describe that event in The book of Acts too someone's first Encounter with the spirit and becoming a Follower of Jesus okay but then what the Book of Acts and the other letters in The New Testament will go on to use the Word to be filled with the Holy Spirit To just to describe your ongoing Experience of the spirit and you can Apparently be more or less full on any Given day and you can keep in step with The spirit yeah yeah there's another Image that Paul uses so that but fall is A great image because you're you're Holy Spirit tank Can apparently be more or less full and That we have an active role in how much We allow ourselves to be influenced by The spirit that's why in Ephesians 5

Paul uses the great metaphor don't be Drunk with wine don't come under the Influence of these things that will Influence your decision making you Actually impair your decision making but Then he says in contrast be filled up by The spirit And what he isn't saying is be drunk get Drunk but with just with the spirit the Point is is come under a different kind Of influence And the same way the alcohol impairs Your decision-making abilities the Influence of the spirit will Repair your thinking abilities and allow You to make wise choices Empower you to Be wise and he goes on to describe that And so on so is there also then because Paul talks about the renewing of Your Mind Correct yep uh are these then Associated with the same yeah that would Be that's a place where Mind and Spirit Yeah uh are overlapping okay uh impulse Usage so to have your mind renewed is Very similar to your spirit being Influenced by God's spirit and then the End result actually it's interesting you Know in Ephesians 5 So there's two places where he talks About the influence of the spirit one is Galatians the fruit Uh love joy peace patience kindness Goodness faithfulness self-control but The other ones in Ephesians 5 chapter 5

Where he says don't get drunk with wine Don't come under that influence rather Be filled with the spirit And then he says here's some markers of What of a holy spirit influenced person Looks like Speaking to one another with Psalms Hymns and spiritual songs So you let the practice of singing Poetic theology in the Sunday Gathering You let that You let those songs begin to shape your Mind hmm Um that's that music is a gift of the Spirit in the church that shapes how we Think that's one marker the next marker Is always giving thanks so somebody who Recognizes every day that everything in My life is a gift even the the ruach That I breathe is a gift Um and then the third one is Submitting yourselves one to another out Of reverence for the Messiah So a community of people who are letting Their worldview be shaped by good music Biblical poetry Uh or biblically inspired poetry that We're saying uh I have a person who's Constantly giving thanks and then a Person who's constantly elevating other People is more important than themselves And then he goes right in to talk about How that works itself out in marriage What it looks like for husband to treat

His wife is more important Than him what it looks like for a wife To do that what it looks like for Parents to do that for children's and so On It's really really so it's very Practical like what does life in the Spirit look like Um it looks like A thankful person who's always humming Attuned about Jesus and who thinks that Everyone else in the world is more Important than themselves yeah Apparently I'd want to be that person's Friend I want to be that Christmas Friends right and I hope one day I can Become more more like that person yeah Yeah wow good question Logan thank you Okay we're gonna do two more This next question comes from Josiah Evans Hello Tim and John My question is this when trying to hear From God what should we focus on hearing An answer to our question or detecting a Signal of God's presence and then try to Work it out from there Yeah Josiah That's really great question yeah very Practical question yeah we've been Talking very theoretically yeah but Let's Um practical yeah um I boy I have some Thoughts

Yeah uh but I think yeah see uh you know Think Um I think in the last podcast we talked About the way people discerned the Spirit working and speaking to them Right in the book of Acts and there was A really diverse Way a set of ways that happened it could It happened through dreams It happened through Um A group of Jesus followers praying Together fasting and praying and and Seeking discernment and guiding on a Particular need or issue it happened With Jesus followers together with their Bibles open Prayerfully meditating and debating and Talking What we don't actually really get Information about is for example how Paul by himself Since the leading and guiding of the Spirit how did he experience that that Story is not told actually in the New Testament so that's interesting that Actually the way the majority way that This ways that people discern The Guiding or voice of the spirit is in Community as a group of people hmm That's the pattern in the New Testament At least which isn't to say it can't Happen one-on-one it's just to say That's not really talked about it

So Yeah uh I'll I won't even say in my own life I'll say there's a handful of really Mature Followers of Jesus that I know who I Admire and look up to And to me they are models of this kind Of Active conversation with The spirit Um and what they what I observe in their Lives is that they are they have active Healthy set of prayer practices Where everything in their life they're Talking about with Jesus on a regular Basis Um So that's a seemed to be a part of this Uh and that they look for convergence Like patterns that I see in in these Friends lives is that what they discern What the spirit's guiding them to do With something that they read in Scripture That's that really like rocked them and Then they uh were listening to a podcast And the same thing comes up and then They're out to dinner with a friend and That same thing comes up and then they Go to church and the sermon is about That thing and So convergence Um that's a pattern I've noticed in some

In people that I respect yeah and then What then they make decisions they based On that and they talk and pray with Their friends and they say I think I'm Supposed to make this decision I'm Supposed to Um I've only had one season of my life Where I had a strong sense of that and it was About moving back to Portland and uh had An amazing Community a great church a Great job at that church in Madison Wisconsin But over the course of a year through a Million different things and I had to Write it all down so I would never Forget it I had this overwhelming sense that I was Supposed to move back to Portland I never heard a voice But there were lots of conversations Things that stood out to me in my own Scripture reflections over that year It was actually a two-year process Before and from the first kind of Sense of that that's what was supposed To happen to me actually moving two Years So anyway I make very slow decisions Like that too yeah so But I don't know I I think it works Differently for different people too Yeah it seems like some people have a Lot of confidence when they they sense

That Um what's the word you're using Um the guidance or leading where there's Multiple things happening oh convergence Convergence yeah Um that that is the spirit or if they Have an intuition oh that's that's the Holy Spirit yeah Um and then on the other end of the Spectrum is probably me who I'm highly Skeptical yeah right and I'm always Thinking that probably is that might Have another explanation correct and Yeah and so I'm always second guessing Um and then there's probably just living Somewhere in the middle and just being Aware of that having confidence at Sometimes and having skepticism at other Times and Um so it seems like there's a bit of a Spectrum potentially of people's Experience with yeah yeah and I it seems To me that's reflected in the New Testament itself people hear this Spirit's Voice or sense the spirit's Guiding through a diverse set of Practices and that seems to reflect the Lives of People I know too Um I I I remember when I was Exploring the spirit a lot more than I Ever had because of a friend in a Community that was they were much more

Uh active in in seeking the spirit and Hearing from the spirit and and uh Communicating with each other uh By telling them what they are hearing From the spirit and that kind of stuff And really challenged by it but I just Really confused like well how do I do it Right and then how do I know that it's Not me just making stuff up yeah yeah And um and I never really got a great Answer no I I think I think it's an Inherently subjective Enterprise Because it's we're talking about God's Personal presence influencing me Um I mean it's not unlike the way Um of really close friends influence Each other or uh spouses people have Been married for a really long time like There are ways that I now make decisions Because of the influence of Jessica on My life even when she's not talking to Me or in the room but I've been you know We've lived together for 15 years yeah And so there have been many times where It was really clear What she needed me to do or wanted me to Do yeah and then it just it starts to Become part of my own nature a second Nature yeah and yeah yeah and I think There's something like that art not a Science yeah I think there's something Like that where oh Jesus taught this This is how he treated people

The 10 times I've been in this Circumstance in the past and I made the Wrong decision So I think this is what the spirit's Guiding me to do I need to do this I Need to give that money away I need to Go talk to that person And ask them this question or I need to Have that difficult conversation that Kind of thing Um so but it's subjective but how could It be otherwise it's if this is actually A relationship with an invisible person It's going to Have a degree of subjectivity to it And but I think that's what makes that's What turns Practicing Christian faith Into an actual living [Music] Reality as opposed to a set of ideas That you adopt Okay so to bring this whole thing home We're going to end with a question from Parker Bullard Hey guys thank you for this series on The Holy Spirit my question is what Resources would you recommend for Further study on pneumatology Yeah thank you Parker Um so yeah pneumatology being the Technical theology where the study of The spirit foreign Ideas about about the spirit so yeah a

Short list Um Francis Chan uh wrote an excellent book For you everyday average reader called Uh the Forgotten God Uh and it's a whole book that's both uh Theological and very pastoral and Personal About uh his deep conviction that the Life A life empowered by the holy spirit is What God is what Jesus wanted for his People and that that's actually what Will make the Jesus movement an Effective presence in the world it's a Really it's a really great great book Um moving more towards theological Exploration one of my favorite books is Christopher Wright knowing the Holy Spirit through the Old Testament And if you read that book you'll you'll All the whole podcast conversation and The video that comes out you'll be like Oh Tim was really influenced by Christopher Wright and I was he's one of My favorite Old Testament Scholars and What's great is even though the title is Misleading because it's actually a full Old and New Testament exploration of the Spirit But in a way that he gets the horse Before the car yeah before the cart uh Which is exploring the Hebrew concepts Of spirit and then reading the New

Testament in light of that Um and then my favorite author on New Testament and specifically Paul because Paul mentions the spirit hundreds of Times he has the most robust theology is A new testament scholar named Gordon fee And he wrote two books he wrote the big Fat More scholarly tum called God's Empowering presence and then he Summarized all of that in a much shorter Book oh that's less technical called Paul the spirit and the people of God Okay so they're both excellent but the Second one is more accessible summary And yeah more accessible to a broader Audience So that's that that's kind of the top of My list you know I was thinking of um Have you have you read or listened much To Frank Viola No no no he comes from a charismatic Tradition but he has this book called Revise us again And revive us or revise I think it's Revised oh Uh clever I'm gonna get up here And uh Let's see Yeah I revise us again revise us again And in it he uh I remember listening to It on audio a long time ago and what I Remember is that Uh

It definitely doesn't come from my Tradition because I come from a more Cessationist tradition Um but for someone who comes from a Charismatic tradition but is wrestling With Um maybe abuses they've seen or Confusion that's come out of that Um he brings a lot of clarity from Within that tradition so I think that's Also a cool resource Yeah sweet Cool all right well that was a lot this Was long Um but but helpful yeah thank you guys For your great yeah thank questions Really appreciate it and um yeah and Thanks and all for all your Encouragement with questions too our Plan is to do more more of these more Questions in response yeah let's do it Let's do more we'll tell you about those In the future cool and the next Podcast is going to be probably on the Word study Um For Shema I have a feeling that's gonna be the Next one awesome more Hebrew Some more Hebrew action this crams more Hebrew in your brain yeah all right Till next time [Music] [Music]


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