Heaven and Earth E4

[Music] Foreign [Music] This is John at the Bible project Tim and I wrote a book it's called when Heaven meets Earth a Biblical study on The theme of Heaven in the Bible it's Set up like a workbook there's 12 Sessions that you could go through by Yourself or with others one of the First Videos we made was a video on the Biblical theme of Heaven and Earth it's The story about how God created heaven And earth United how they were driven Apart and how God plans to bring them Back together again and our role in that Entire story the video does a really Good job of showing an overview of this Theme but we couldn't really get in to a Lot of the juice and so what this Workbook allows us to do is dig in There's 12 sessions it goes through the Entire story arc of the Bible from the Beginning to the end there's essays by Tim and I there are geek out sections That allow you to get really geeky if You want to there's dig deeper sections Which allow you to open up the Bible Read scripture and engage with it Yourself and then there's discussion Questions if you want to do this with a Group you could find it at Thebibleproject.com heaven book you can Download it for free and you can

Pre-order a physical copy okay so since That workbook was on the brain this Podcast episode is us talking about Heaven and Earth uniting but me asking Some questions around some things that Jesus says in the Gospel of John that to Me doesn't feel like heaven and earth Uniting It Feels Like Us teleporting Away to heaven when we die and if it's Surprising you that you don't fly off to Heaven when you die consider this and Ever once in the Bible is the phrase go To heaven used to talk about what Happens after you die not even once so What happens when you die why does Jesus Talk about going away and preparing a Place for us in the Gospel of John we're Going to talk about that in this episode Here we go [Music] What I really want to talk about is Um this whole idea of heaven uniting With Earth it's a Biblical Paradigm yes But it's not the one that I grew up with And like I don't think a lot of Christians did and so it feels like We're rediscovering it what I forgot Yeah you had some questions about the Language of Heaven and Earth and this World and not of this world from John Yeah so the gospel and how that fits in Because we don't talk about it that much In the work book and we didn't talk About the gospel of John's Heaven and

Earth language that much yeah in uh the Podcast we make a really really thorough Excellent case not that a case has to be Made but that the way to think about Heaven and earth is is not that one day I I leave Earth to go to some final Resting place up in the sky correct um That's very unbiblical yeah however with That in mind In the Gospel of John Jesus talking to His disciples says a couple things that Can easily be interpreted in my mind as This Paradigm of zapping out of Earth to Go to heaven yeah maybe just as a Preface if you already have that story In your mind Um of the story the Bible is about the World is bad Jesus came not of this world into the World to become human but then to save Us from this material world to go to a Disembodied non-material Heaven forever Um and that is salvation if you already Have that story in your mind from your Church or youth pastor or whatever then You come to the Gospel of John and out Of all of the four gospels the Gospel of John will be the friendliest to that to To that Um the language and imagery used in the Gospel of John Can be easily converted into that Storyline even though that's not Actually what is going on in the Gospel

Of John but it's Okay so so you tell me what passage what Part of the Gospel of John are you yeah So let's start with um in John 14. Uh Jesus is talking with his disciples This is all part of what's called The Upper Room discourse right yep yep Because they're in a room that's high What's it called The Upper Room Discourse yeah us because um Uh it has to do with where Jesus Celebrated the the Passover the pathover Meal yeah the night before he got Arrested it's in a it's in a room that's Above someone yeah it's just the gospel Is called an upper room yep they call it The upper room yeah and they have a Discourse and yeah and exactly He says in John 14 Um I'll just read the verse uh chapter One or Chapter 14 verse 1. do not let Your hearts be troubled believe in God Believe also in Me In My Father's House There are many Dwelling Places if it Were not so would I have told you that Would I have told you that I go to Prepare a place for you and if I go and Prepare a place for you I will come Again and will take you to myself So that where I am you will you will Also be And you know the way to the place where I am going Uh and then Thomas is like ah Lord we

Don't know we don't know where you're Going and then he says the famous I am The way famous line I do know the way Because I am the way I am the way truth In the life and you know me yeah So when you read that you well first of All think what do you remember Audio Adrenaline you weren't really following Jesus back in Audio Adrenaline days no I Don't know what that means [Laughter] It's a Christian band it's a band in the 90s I was able to put that much together Okay okay uh and they they're just like A Christian rock band in the 90s and They had this song about it was out from This verse Um about Um it goes uh come and go with me to my Father's house come oh yeah it's a big Big house oh that's where that song came From rooms Yeah I remember I remember I was like 20 I was a new Christian And I'd never really been around Christian Camp ever But I I had some friends who invited me to Come be like a counselor Well they had a skate ramp at this Christian Camp and so I was like the Skateboard ramp instructor at the Breakout time nice So anyway and they were playing that

Song yeah but at like the campfire times At night they would sing that song oh They would sing it yeah they sang that Song like all the kids yeah and I didn't Understand why they were okay yeah so It's it's a very it's a very captivated Image it's a song of based on this it's A song based on this which is this image Of in heaven God has this Mansion this Massive house and it's got lots of rooms And he's gonna go and he's gonna like Get it ready make sure the lawn's Manicured make sure everything's tight Because we're going to go meet him there Yeah and Um that that seems like what he's saying Here in my father's house there are many Dwelling Places yeah And I'm gonna go yeah prepare a place For you Okay and then I'll come and I will take You yeah I will take you to myself so You're like my my yeah Heaven is the Golden Mansions whatever in the sky he's Going there he Jesus is going there and Then um he's gonna return and zap us all Out of the world Um and so we can go live in the FML Cloudy golden Mansions forever and ever Yeah yeah yeah see this quite seems very Clear yeah And it probably has a really great back Yeah oh man this yeah this this saying Is so cool there's really cool things

Happening here Um okay well first just think in terms Of what you already know Think back to the I think it's three Part having an earth podcast okay uh and Your nation is Reliant and one of your Main Frameworks is uh corresponding to The temple that you see in Jerusalem That corresponds to that gives you a Concrete image Of God's Own Dwelling Place which Overlaps right there in the temple okay But then also as a mirror Of God's dwelling place above the skies Above the Dome so the temple That I can go check out in the middle of The city whoever it is yeah is where God Dwells it's like some portal portal Between Heaven and Earth but also Represents yeah God's Dwelling Place Yeah like think of the sky think of the Psalms that say You O Lord dwell above The heavens you created heaven and earth You founded your throne above them all Yeah that kind of thing okay So Um this is why Isaiah when he's in has His vision it's Vision he wasn't Actually there he has a vision of being In the holy of holies because he would Never get allowed to be in there only The high priest could so he has a vision That he's in there and what he sees is The lower half right of God's robe and

Feet and the train of his robe and the Other half is in the the upper part of The portal Going and it represents the mirror of The Earthly Temple which is the Heavenly Temple okay and the Heavenly Temple is Um like what John the Visionary sees in The Book of Revelation he has that Vision the heavens open and he sees Above the sky dome and what he sees is The Heavenly throne room and all the Angelic creatures this is in Revelation This is in the Book of Revelation okay Yeah so you have this this is a remember So the biblical world the ancient Authors they're thinking of a Three-tiered universe the land the Waters under the land and then the sky And then what who Reigns as Transcendent King above it all God does okay so the My point is is that in this conception Of God when we talk about God living in The heavens this is this is an image of God as the Transcendent king and the way The heavens are high above The land is an image of God's rule as Being high above any human rule Um so this is connected to the image of God's dwelling place in Heaven God's the Heavenly Temple Um so the temple Um in Jerusalem had tons of rooms in Fact the whole The temple building itself uh

In Solomon's Temple had all these store Rooms around the outside and then Um they're called The store rims and that's where it's Like the treasuries you know it's where When you bring a tenth of your produce Of your Wheat Field like where does all That get stored right there's only story Rooms Um different priests and Levites who Were on rotation Um could stay in these rooms those rims They're mentioned all over they're Mentioned and All these different stories in the Old Testament the rims So that's what Jesus is picking up on Here Um the Heavenly Temple Where God rules and Reigns over the World And in my father's house there are many Rooms so in the temple There are many yeah when Jesus used Language of my father's house house is The main word for temple in the Bible The house of God means Temple So in my father's Heavenly Temple There's many rooms Just like in just like the Jerusalem Jerusalem Temple okay Um and then what he's saying is and These rooms were used for work yeah they Were used for the work of the temple

Yeah yeah that's right so my point is Just he's using an image that the Disciples would know and be familiar With Okay Um And this is why you know think of the Psalms like Psalm 42 or 87 my soul longs To be in the courts of the Lord and you Know it's this image of being in the Temple and near God's beautiful presence It's awesome this image of intimacy and Closeness okay so Um Jesus is telling his disciples I'm About to I'm gonna die yeah I'm going to I'm going away and he's trying to let This sink in that he's been with them But now he's not going to be with them And then what he's saying is I'm going To open up the way to God's Temple to This he's going to repair the disunity Between Heaven and Earth Um so when he says I'm going to prepare A place for you a place for you to be in God's Heavenly Temple correct yeah Correct but they wouldn't be thinking oh Right because I'm going to go up into Heaven and live in God's Heavenly Temple They would have understood that means Access to God's Divine okay all right so Now we're now we're to it so the Question is um what does I will come Again and take you to myself that you May be where I am Um so there's a couple things relevant

Here and these are just kind of more Detailed interpretation things but if You go down in the teaching just a few Paragraphs later In verse 18. He says I'm in verse 16. excuse me Chapter 14 verse 16. I'll ask the father And he's going to give you another Helper or another Advocate the spirit of Truth And then he says I won't leave you as Orphans I will come to you So he's this whole thing's about I'm Going away She's trying to get them ready for that So here's a place a little bit later Where he says I'm going away and God's The father is going to send you the Spirit Who's going to come to you he will abide With you and be in you and then the next Sentence is I won't leave you as orphans I will come to you hmm and you're like Wait I thought the spirit's going to come to Me hmm yes Wait is Jesus going to come to me or is The spirit going to come to me and he Just says both yeah in this two Sentences the spirit will come to be With you and I will come to you it's Kind of like how the New Testament Authors will often interchange Jesus The spirit of Jesus and and the Holy

Spirit the spirit of God yeah that's Right so that's interesting but he uses The language of I will come to you Um then all just a few sentences later In verse 23 Jesus says Jesus answered And said to Um Judas not scary at who betrayed him But another Judas Verse 23 if anyone loves me and keeps my Word my father will love him And we will come to him and make our Abode with him and that word abode is The same exact Greek word as the word Rooms up in the I don't know why there Are English translations use different English words because it hides Abode Yeah Abode that word abode in verse John 14 verse 23 is the same Greek word Monet As what Jesus says up in in my Father's house are many what's the Greek Word Monet Monet isn't Abode got like um A bot like a bite but yes yeah so There's a uh it connects to a verb That's used all throughout the Gospel of John menow so Monet is the noun dwelling Place or a biting spot and then meno is The is the verb abide yeah all the Famous lines of like abide in me I abide In you that's all many Um if the you know the the branch and The vine about the branch abides in the Vine it will produce much fruit So abide is this image of intimacy and Connection to abide in Jesus means to

Give my allegiance to him to trust him To trust his love for me And to follow his teachings Um and so my point is is within one Chapter John 14 this image of Jesus Abiding or us abiding in Jesus or Jesus Coming to be with us it's a really fluid Dynamic image It can refer to the SP the coming of the Spirit in Pentecost This I'll send you the spirit and I will Come to you Or it can refer to me and my father Anyone who obeys me and follows me God's loving presence is with that Person and you can say God's Abode is With them Um So to bring us all the way back to the Beginning of John 14. so when he says I Will come again yes well so that's the Debate the debate is when Jesus says at The beginning I go to prepare a place For you and I will come again and take You to myself Question is what's that talking about Some people think that's talking about Jesus appearing after the resurrection Some people think it refers to Pentecost In the coming of the spirit And there are some people who think Jesus is here referring to his return at The End of the Age To receive them to himself

Um now I'm gonna surprise you I don't Know maybe I'm going to surprise you I Actually think that third option makes The most sense That he is referring in context it seems Like he's referring to I will come again And take you to myself Meaning that Um Well yeah whenever Jesus returns he's Going to receive his people to himself So that they can be with him Um But not it's um Like well yeah remember remember there's This category that all of the Apostles Have The death Cannot break or get in the way of God's Love for me or his commitment to me and So Paul has this category of being with Jesus being with Jesus after death but That's not the end of the story what the End of the story is Recreation and new creation and Resurrection body and so on so he could Just be referring to yeah I'll kind of Collect you up when you die yeah I think Jesus and the whole point is Comfort What he just said don't let your hearts Be troubled he's he Um is talking about he's going to talk About how the world hates you they're Going to kill you nobody's gonna like

You So Jesus isn't trying to give them a Lecture on the nature of the afterlife He's trying to give them words of Comfort as a friend That even though things are going to get Terrible I'm going to prepare a place for you Which doesn't mean he's zapping up to Heaven to like start building the Heavenly Temple it already exists so how Does Jesus prepare a place for other People to enter in to The holy of holies Um he's and it's what's gonna happen in The story he's gonna die for the sins of The world that's him preparing a place Yeah him dying and being raised Um on behalf of sinful Broken humans is how he's preparing a Place and then Jesus is the Trailblazer Of the reunion of Heaven and Earth so What Jesus's Focus here is Is that I'm opening up the Gateway Between Heaven and Earth and Um I'm going to take you to be to myself And the focus just for pastoral reasons This just on Giving them an image of comfort So it's just the equivalent of what Paul Says with should I I might get killed in A Roman prison here Which should I prefer man I'd be with Jesus that'd be awesome but it's better

For you that I remain so I can keep Planting churches and traveling about so I think that's what Jesus is focusing on Here he's not focusing on the end game Which is the reunion of Heaven and Earth He's focusing on the interim period That's very foggy hmm All it describes here is that you may be Where I am But Jesus doesn't his whole plan is not To stay in heaven or for heaven and Earth to be disconnected Um So when they when he says And if I go um Is this clear to the disciples he's Talking about dying well actually Through the whole upper room discourse Chapters 14 15 and 16. he's trying to Make it clear to them that that's what He's talking about what he's talking About and they keep going like where are You going how long will you be gone Where yeah and so the disciples in Upper Room become this kind of stand-in for You the reader For whom Jesus you've you know I've Never seen Jesus and so their questions Kind of become my questions of like oh Yeah I've never seen Jesus where is he Is he gonna come back what's he gonna do What do I do in the meantime Is he with us or is he not with us Um

So yeah so let me put it simply and then Maybe you can say you always do a great Job of summarizing so I think what Jesus Is talking about here is that same in Between period Where people are going to hate you they Might even kill you you might die But don't worry What I'm about to do in my death and Resurrection is opening up the way To God's Heavenly presence and I'm going To take you you'll never be separated From me not even in death And at the end of the age I'm you and I Are going to be together in God's Presence What he's not focusing on is the Culmination of the story say in the Book Of Revelation where then that Heavenly Temple the New Jerusalem comes to be Reunited with Earth and New Creation Okay Um and that's just not Jesus's Focus Here because he's not giving a lecture He's talking to his friends and trying To comfort them That they won't um Uh even death won't separate them Forever So There's this in between time that Paul Talks about being with Jesus Jesus here talks about being with him Where he is at and that there's a place

For them in God's Heavenly Temple Correct so there's something happening Here and it's very foggy we don't have a Clear yeah perspective of what it is Jesus called it Paradise to the guy Crucified next to him today you'll be With me In the Garden of Eden Yeah that's what he says which which was A a cosmic Temple is this a disembodied State Well I think it has to be yeah yeah okay So there is some sort of interim Disembodied state that Jesus and Paul Both talk about yep yeah Yeah but it's not Um a permanent State and it's not the End of the story Because it doesn't solve the problem The problem is about the relationship Between Heaven and Earth that's the Biblical drama but that's not what Jesus Is talking about in John 14. he's Talking to his friends who are Traumatized by the fact that he just Said I'm gonna go get crucified during First century Judaism what were the Paradigms that they had of after death Pre-resurrection well state We talked about this um in the Holy Spirit question and response about Your soul or body right your spirit yeah So the conviction is If my life

Belongs to God and his love Then Death is not the end Um And God's love is going to bring new Life and bring a new creation That's the biblical drama the biblical Storyline What that leaves a question of is okay So what happens in the what happens to Me Uh if I die this side of the new Creation and in that time period before What do I cease to exist And that's at least that's not how any Of the biblical authors put it Um how they put it is God will take me To himself that he will Sustain Me by his love and creative Power And by Nature that has to be in a non -embodied State because you know my Body's in the you know cremated or in The ground decomposed yeah Um but yeah none there's just unless you Have some sort of different type of body Yeah but but the idea is that you're Going to be United with your body yeah The hope is what happened to Jesus the Empty tomb is what will happen to his People In the resurrection and in the new Creation and so Jesus Again we're back to we have a whole

Session on this in the Heaven and Earth Book is Um Like John in the revelation John didn't have a little video camera That he looked into To wonder what the new creation would be Like they they were eyewitnesses to the Resurrected Jesus they ate food with him They touched him And he was the same Jesus that they Walked around with in Galilee But he was at the same time a different Jesus fundamentally like his body had Really strange properties you know yeah And at some moments they couldn't Recognize him like Mary or the two on The road to a mess and so these are ways Of Talking about how Whatever the new creation is it's a Renewal of this world yeah but it will Be so fundamentally Transformed That it's also not this world yeah uh This is also the same Dynamic at work in The of this world or not of this world Language in the Gospel of John right Which I want to talk to you about yeah So maybe we could jump there yeah so It's by Nature a disembodied state After death and you're with Jesus He says it here Paul says it Jesus said it to the guy

Crucified next to him But again As we say in the video that's not the Focus if there was a story if there's Such this conviction that you know you Are a body and you don't really have an Essence outside of your body then how Can there be a sense of a disembodied State yeah well Um Yeah we just don't have You know in the Old Testament you just Um You just die And you're did they summon a spirit and Someone summon some sort of spirit man There's one occasion yeah the witch of Endor In uh right at the end of first Samuel Yeah such an amazing I still remember reading that story for The first time in the little title Summary The Witch of Endor and you're like am I Freaking Tolkien yeah yeah he's she Summons up uh The ruach of um Samuel the breath from The dead yeah it's a bizarre story so That's some sort of disability the only Story like it in the entire Bible Where a person who's dead dead Uh their presence or life presence is Makes it an appearance To somebody

In some kind of magic ceremony Seriously it's the only place in the Entire Bible where that happens yeah It's a strange story it's a very strange Story but obviously there's some sort of Category then yeah of yeah there's a Category for yeah disembodied yeah Essence of who you are yeah that's right And but it has nothing to do with the Inherent immortality of the human soul It has to do with God's commitment to Not let his beloved people Um Be destroyed by Death But that he preserves the life of his People beyond death and through death And then out into New Creation Um And just yeah just the biblical authors Don't have much more to say about it Except for these images of being with Jesus Or being in the temple Even in God's Heavenly Temple Yeah man I wish there was just like a Journalist back then who just drilled Jesus on some of this stuff yeah I feel Like he could have been a little more Thorough well you can go to other Jewish Literature you know of the period Dead Sea Scrolls they're really interested in The Heavenly Temple and Um Philo who was a Jewish philosopher Roughly contemporary he wrote a ton but

He was also trying to integrate the Hebrew Bible with The philosophy of Plato and Aristotle Yeah and so he's fully transformed the Hebrew thought categories Yeah what you want to know is what what Did Jesus think yeah yeah because There's probably different opinions sure Floating around Judaism well you know he Tells that uh parable about the rich man And Lazarus yeah Um and actually I know there's even some Uh debate not not that much debate Uh among Scholars about whether or not That's a parable um But I think it has all the clues of one Of Jesus's Parables but he just uses the Phrase Abraham's bosom yeah right the Poor man Lazarus dies and he's in Abraham's bosom yeah which of course is A metaphor So because because we're the Seed of Abraham well it's the family of Abraham Is God's covenant people and so bosom is Like your yeah oh yeah it's like holding You close to your chest oh You're getting a bear hug from Abraham Yeah yeah it it's actually not too Different than in my father's house or Many dwellings in the same way those Temple rooms are so close to the temple To be able to have your own personal one Is like being in God's business like Getting a bear hug from totally yeah so

The rich the rich man is not in Abraham's bosom and Poor Lazarus even though he was rejected He was a member of the Covenant people And so God won't forget him and he's Taken into the bosom of the father of The Covenant people so it's a rich Metaphor For the same idea to be with God to be With Jesus Um so it's like we're being asked to Hold on to an idea very lightly yeah Like we're not given very clear it's Like Jesus wanted them to To be comforted Comfort don't let your Hearts be troubled yeah trust in God and Trust in me listen but his comfort Didn't come with a lot of information It's you know I mean yeah in the sense That they they get it enough like I Guess they're like they're following Enough to get comforted but I would have Been like whoa whoa whoa where are you Talking where are you going well that's What he does say yeah sure he says I Don't know how to get where you're going Yeah but and then what again and his Point isn't to feel speculation right Yeah Thomas says we don't know the way And he doesn't say oh sorry what I meant Was the Heavenly Temple and in the Interim period between death and prevent What Jesus says is just Thomas I am the Way yeah

So he's constantly redirecting attention Just to himself The Hope isn't in an idea so it's this Thing of like after death they've become Really attached to Jesus yeah But he's going away and so he is the way And it's as simple as just hang with me And everything's gonna be all right yeah And you get that message enough and then Jesus says actually I'm leaving yeah Um then your World's Gonna Be rocked Yeah because your strategy is just I'm Just gonna hang with this guy yeah Um yeah and so that's why he says later Don't I'm going away but I'm not leaving You as orphans yeah I will come to you Through the spirits coming to you and And the reason I'm going away is because I want to connect you with the presence Of God himself yeah I'm going away so The spirit's coming in in this in Between period that you're right between Us now and when I come again And then also when I do come again we Will be fully reunited in and together In God's Heavenly Temple presence yeah Um which wouldn't be possible for you Aside from what I'm about to do in my Death and Resurrection on your behalf But again even all of that is about Their personal hope Um he's not talking about the whole Storyline of the Bible

Which is about that Heavenly Temple Presence of God with all the people Who are waiting to be re-embodied in the New creation When Heaven and Earth are reunited I mean These Disciples of Jesus they're Jews so And they they must have they have some Sort of uh Training or understanding of scripture Before Jesus sure And so what were their expectations of I Mean if you're a Jewish person and You're following the law You you're not worried about whether or Not you're gonna be part of God's house You are a part of it right uh they Wouldn't have had this category of like Well maybe when I die I won't be sure It's Heavenly sure dwelling but uh Um We're not just reading the writings of What's an average Jewish person we're Reading The Gospel according to John And so the whole gospel is framed as Jesus comes as Israel's Messiah To show that true faithfulness to the God of Israel and the storyline of the Old Testament Is now fulfilled in Jesus and so how you Respond to him is how you respond to the God of Israel now Um so the whole point is he's kind of Redrawing the boundary lines of who is a

Part of the Covenant people Um and those who don't recognize him Don't actually know the god of Israel I Mean that's how starkly he puts it at Many points so the point is that Jesus Alone is now the The Gateway I'm the way the truth of Life yeah no one comes the father yeah That's right and that exclusive claim is Matched by the most radically open armed Claim that God loves the world John 3 16. God doesn't hate this world he Right this world is under the Hostile Influences and so God loves it and Jesus Came in order to do for it what it Couldn't do for itself So that he could redeem it [Music] Thank you So let's talk about that then Um just to wrap this up yeah in the next Chapter Jesus says chapter 15. if the world Hates you Be aware that it hated me before I hated You if you belong to the world the world Would love you as its own because you do Not belong to the world but I have Chosen you out of the world what this is Nrsv okay Therefore the world hates you remember The word that I said to you servants are Not greater than their Master if they Persecuted me they will persecute you if

They kept my word they will keep yours Also So yeah first this is really helpful Thing to know the Gospel of John the way John tells his story the way he narrates The way the whole story The way Jesus talks is actually really Different than how he talks in Matthew Mark or Luke in most places so the Vocabulary of the Gospel of John Is permeated with Um What different commentators called Dualisms or dualistic phrases like light And dark or above and below Heaven and Earth good or evil blind or sight Um actually I've got an essay by one of My favorite New Testament Scholars Richard Balcom His collection of essays on the Gospel Of John he has a whole chapter on this I mean he just has tons of these oh well Uh there's a whole page of yeah it's Actually two pages front and back yeah Um Yeah and it just characterizes Uh Glory you receive Glory from humans Or Glory from God there's a ruler of This world and God Jesus's kingdom is Not of this world there's the father of Lies but the spirit of Truth Children of The devil children of God the thief and The Bandit versus The Shepherd of God's People

Uh slavery versus Freedom so this just Just a a mark of Uh the vocabulary and it's all part of John's effort to as he says at the end To persuade you To believe that Jesus is the son of God Then that you might believe in him and Have life through his name so the Gospel Of John is a persuasion document and He's using one of the most common Properties of persuasia well Sure yeah in the in the best part of the World actually most forms of human Communication are propaganda if if you Mean just trying to persuade you to Think or do something yeah Um But yeah he just employs this technique Of like black and white contrasts Um so of this world and not of this World yeah so when he says so I think of Yes I belong to this planet or I don't Belong to this planet correct and yeah If I'm going to be Zapped away to be a Part of some sort of heavenly Kingdom One day then I'm cool with you say I'm Not I don't belong to this planet that Works perfectly in that Paradigm yeah Yeah but if you say hey no Heaven and Earth are going to unite and we are Earthlings that will live on Earth in A New Earth yeah yeah then it's like well Then I am of this world yeah right yeah Yeah so yeah the point of him saying and

He says you're not of this world he Doesn't mean you're not physical Right what it means is your value system Is no longer based In Something that's apart from Jesus or Apart from God okay it's not merely Humanly derived Um Uh it's very similar uh a great analogy Is when Jesus is being tried before Pilate And uh you know Pilates asking him are You the king of the Jews and you say so Yeah you say so Um actually that's the Matthew marker Luke Um and John Jesus answers my kingdom is Not from this world If my kingdom were from this world my Servants would be fighting So that I wouldn't get arrested But as it is my Kingdom's not of this World So whatever not of this world means for Jesus it doesn't mean not physical He's he's what what does it mean to be Of This World In His conversation with Pilate if my kingdom were of this world My disciples would be a military crew Doing Special Ops like you know leaping In through the windows and slitting your Neck right now if my kingdom were of This world if we had the values of this

Of the way the world works yeah yeah you Tell me like when he says Mike if my Kingdom was of this world I'd have the Assassin crew on you right Now and you'd be dead yeah if I was well It could mean in the Paradigm I grew up In it would mean If what I was trying to do was something Political right now Versus I just want to make sure you guys All can go to heaven yeah so so my Kingdom is the kingdom of heaven but That's not what he says I know but I Mean that's what you're saying what Could it be if if Jesus meant my Kingdom's not of this world So because I'm all about heaven and Getting people out of here to go to Heaven yeah then he would not say if my Kingdom were of this world Then my servants would be fighting as it Is my kingdom is not of this world he Would say something like my Kingdom's Not of this world so none of this Matters we're all going to heaven But if my kingdom were of this world Like it's not the right contrast Um I don't understand It's not the right contrast because My Kingdom's not of this world yeah if It were If it were of this world yes then we'd Be launching Revolution right now

Oh I see but if we're gonna go up to Heaven one day I'm not gonna watch it I'm not gonna launch a revolution Um it fit I mean it fits a paradigm fits Within what Jesus is saying Yeah you're right it does but but it Seems like the other way to take it is Saying Um my my ways are not of this world the Ways of this world would be yeah to take This by force that's right with violence Yeah and overthrow you the way that We've seen a hundred times before Correct a thousand times before but by Mentioning a military Revolution yeah he Shows that what he's not talking about Is a destination let's talk about a Method of becoming King he's talking About how yeah how you exercise power in This world Kingdom So he's not talking about where he's Going to become a king he's talking About how he's gonna become king yeah That's right if my kingdom had the value System of this world it'd be revolution Time right now so when he says of this World he means having the value system Of this world yeah my kingdom doesn't Work by the value system of normal Kingdom and what's this word here the of The world ah Cosmos Cosmos Cosmos yeah And Cosmo the cosmos is the thing that God loves in John 3 16. God loves Cosmos That's why he's that it's not it's not a

Globe or a planet that's not the idea no It's just the inhab the the the world The ordered world and the humans inhabit Creation yeah yeah okay so there's yeah And there's a it's under the influence Of hostile powers and that is the not Influence being under that influence is Being of the world Correct that's right that's why Um in a dialogue in John chapter eight Um Jesus is talking to a bunch of Jewish Leaders who reject him And what he says to them John chapter 8 23 he says you are from Below I am from Above You are of this world I am not of this World And it's the same I am an alien yeah He's not saying I'm not human Clearly Um So this whole point is it's like what he Says in Nicodemus if I speak to you About Earthly things Worldly things Um how can I how can we have a Conversation about Heavenly things so This Heaven and Earth of this world not Of this world contrasts in John it's About it's about value systems about Value systems it's about world view it's About what story it's about is this Merely a human concoction is there a Verse is there a verse saying that we'll

Receive as a gift from God's own life And love and creative power okay Is there a verse that says don't be of The be in the world but not of the world Uh yeah listen that's in the first Letter of John first letter of John yep Yeah so yeah same thing what does it Mean to be of this world you could be in The world without being of the world Yeah and he talks about Pride Um and that's right yeah okay so I guess The thing is is like as I if as I move My Paradigm to being hey I I want to Um I want to participate in what God's Doing here in in this world preparing For New Creation which will be a new Earth yes I am an Earthling I will Always be an Earthling yeah there might Be this time interim period that's Pretty foggy uh that's a disability not Might I mean I Think Jesus and Paul like There is a time there is a time if I die Before the new creation they want me to Know with confidence that they've got me Okay and that I'll be with Jesus and That my life won't Escape so according To Paul and Jesus Yep this is happening But they don't call that heaven That's Abraham's bosom or that's a room In the father's house or that's being With Jesus with Jesus yeah of all these Different ways to talk about it but the But the but the room in God's Temple is In the Heavenly Temple yeah so it's in

Heaven Sure I'm just saying the Heavenly Temple It's it's still it never was referred to Significant that never once in the Bible Is the phrase go to heaven used right to Talk about what happens after you die Not even once Right there's all these other ways of Talking about it But when you use those other ways of Talking about it They remind you that oh yeah this isn't The end of the game yeah this is a Temporary end of the game is being on Earth in a new in a new creation which Is a guardian of Heaven and Earth a Union of Heaven and Earth and so as I as I shift to that Paradigm yeah I feel Like it gives me so much more traction For life now because it's not going to Be so different I mean it's gonna be Different but it won't be some new Paradigm well yeah it'll be yeah Again it'll be what what the apostles Experienced when they met the Risen Jesus right it's that but the whole Universe so yeah Um it's not like I mean If if it's some Heavenly strange you Know Disembodied State forever that I don't Really fully understand there's not a Lot I can hold on to and it's just kind Of like Yeah well yeah I'll wait it out

Yeah and and until then I'll just kind Of do what I need to do but if uh but if It's something like this then then like I said there's more traction there's More like what I do now is actually Preparing me for the reality because It's not going to be so different and Um and so as I prepare myself for that And I think about that a verse like this Trips me up because I actually want to Use the phrase I am of this world oh Sure in the way of Like I'm made for This world yes yeah I'm made to be an Earthling sure with a human body I'm not When when I hear the phrase I'm out of This world that's a category for me of Oh yeah I'm supposed to be this in Disembodied Soul That Gets Zapped to Some other got it yeah platonic State And that's because you you're you're Using that word world in a way that's Different than how John is using the Word world yeah John's using it to talk About a value system yeah where I'm Talking about physical this is actually Yeah I have to remind myself because of my Tradition that I actually know this I Belong here this is yeah this is good Yeah being in God's world and this is The ultimately this needs to be redeemed But that's not what the Gospel of John Need to remind people of and you remind People of the like the value systems

That have been running this world are Going to be going away and you need to Be a part of the value systems that yeah Are to come and so this is just Um I'm just thinking about this and this Really is a whole almost a whole other Conversation but I think that also a Person's social location Will shape how they How they think about all of this in Other words if you have a nice house if You have yeah if you're if you are Living a fairly comfortable life and you Have the ability to have free choices And shape the world around you right Then you like being here and you don't Want to leave here yeah and this world's Yeah screwed up but it's not it's also a Lot of Beauty in it so I want to be here And see this improve and even better However there are many times in history In fact the mid probably the majority of Humans for the majority of human history Including The early Christians Uh Were living in an extremely hostile Environment they had no influence over How the Romans viewed them or saw them They were just You know Uh perpetrated against and or hunted Down or And so in that kind of scenario this

World is right yeah you you you want you Don't want to be of this world and what You're looking for is something Radically different than the current age And so to me it's significant that the New Testament talks about this from both Sides both ankles yeah You get a beautiful image like Paul's You know creation but redeemed liberated From Decay and made to be fully what it Is and all of its beauty and goodness But then you also get John You know the Gospel of John are letters Of John that's just like the world's Corrupt Dodge we're not of this world And so both of those can be true at the Same time and in different seasons of a Person's life I think they will speak Different things so I think it's good to Remember of what what we tend to do is Take one of those if they're like on a Spectrum of how do I feel about the World today you know what we tend to do Is take one end of the spectrum the World's bad And then we make the whole Bible about Escaping the world or you can go the Other extreme though and be like no the World's not that bad yeah so let's just Improve move improve things here and It'll just be a better version of that Whatever the new creation is So I just think we need to Try and balance both of those it'll be a

Heavens and earth But it'll be a new Heavens on Earth It'll be a redeemed version of creation And the the The true north of the compass for the Apostles again isn't some crystal ball That they actually saw what the new Creation is going to be what they saw Was the Risen Jesus And then they concluded that what they Encountered The person they encountered Uh is a preview of what's going to Happen for all of creation [Music] Thanks for listening to this episode of The Bible project the workbook on Heaven And Earth can be downloaded for free at Thebibleproject.com heaven book The Bible project is a non-profit we believe The Bible is a unified story that leads To Jesus and has profound wisdom for the Modern world we make videos and Resources that help explain that and They're all free it's on our website Thebioproject.com say hi to us we're on Twitter at join bibleproj and on Facebook facebook.com join the Bible Project and our YouTube channel is Youtube.com the Bible project thanks for Being a part of this with us Foreign [Music] [Music]


Leave a Comment